The Young CPA Success Show: Episode 25

Are you a crypto investor? Then this episode is for you! Mackenzie Patel chats with Joey and Hannah about her non-traditional journey in the accounting industry, from internship at Deloitte to her current focus on cryptocurrency and AI at her firm, Hash Basis. As the CEO and Co-founder of Hash Basis, Mackenzie discusses her passion for tech, challenges of hiring for her specialized firm, and the opportunity (and volatility) of cryptocurrencies.

Intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Young CPA Success Show. If you're a young accounting professional, this podcast is your ultimate guide to navigating your early career. Join us as we share valuable insights, expert advice, and practical tips to help you kickstart your path to success and excel in the accounting industry. Let's embark on this exciting accounting journey together.

Hannah (00:00:23) - All right, Joey, I want to hear from you. So, what would you say if you could think of one is one of the boldest decisions that you've ever made.

Joey (00:00:30) - So, this is this is a bit of a challenging question for me because as we've discussed in a couple of different formats, like, I'm really risk averse, I like structure, I like my routine, like I'm the kind of guy who, when I find and I used to do this all the time when I had to go into the office, I had my one parking space, and that was it wasn't an assigned parking space. That was just where I parked my car every day and when somebody was in my parking space, I'd get unreasonably and irrationally angry about, would.

Hannah (00:01:02) - You fight somebody over your parking space?

Joey (00:01:04) - Well, it's just like. Look, I park here every day like you couldn't park in this other spot. Like, this is my this is my unofficial official spot. So, like, I really like structure and I really like certainty. And I'm not always the best at, like, living in that uncertain time. So, the, the biggest, like, pivot that I ever made in my, in my like personal professional life was in 2008, I was I had just finished up my sophomore year in college at University of New Mexico, and I was relatively unhappy with like, where my life was going 2008 was a weird time, like it was a real interest. Lots of stuff was going on. I had an economist that I worked with in my macroeconomics class who was like, y'all, this is going to be the most unprecedented thing that's ever going to happen in capitalism in 100 years. buckle up and he was right and so, I kind of woke up one day in the middle of July, and I called my aunt and I said, hey, I think I'm ready to explore going to Kansas State.

Joey (00:02:15) - And my aunt, to her credit, and I love her for this, and we'll owe her everything for it, she said, I've been waiting two years for you to make this phone call.

Hannah (00:02:25) - Oh that's awesome.

Joey (00:02:26) - She made two phone calls and the next day I was in K state and then a week later, I was in the fraternity and that set the course for my entire life, but I knew two people in the whole state when I moved there and, you know, that was a very challenging thing for me. More socially challenging than anything else. Like, I couldn't, I wasn't great in social situations, I was awkward, I was uncomfortable, like I had a lot of growing to do there and that was kind of the springboard that enabled me to do that and make that change but it was very much alike. That was probably like, I mean, it was a full 180 of like, I'm just taking my life in a completely different direction.

Hannah (00:03:09) - Yeah, yeah, I can totally relate to that. Yeah. Thinking about that, I for me, I have told this story a couple times on the podcast, but I left the accounting industry completely and whenever I did that for me like that was really it was scary. It felt unknown. It felt like I'd worked in accounting for most of my career up to that point, and I was like, "You know what?" I want something different for my life. Like, if this is all it's ever going to be, this is not what I want and so, I went into insurance and that was really that was really at 180 for me, especially from accounting and obviously going into something that there's similarities, but realistically it was more sales focused and so, I, I applied like I got the job really quickly. I started studying for my license, my licenses from the day I started studying to the day I was licensed with a three-week time period. So, like, everything happened, like, so.

Joey (00:04:09) - They cram those in fast. Yeah. Yes.

Hannah (00:04:12) - It happened so fast and then I got there, and I found success there too. Like, I was junior partner of our agency, and I really like I had a good path. Like, I could see the path forward but then there were some things that started to happen where it was just very, very abundantly clear to me that, like, I needed to go back to what I knew, what I was comfortable like, where I really wanted to flourish and put my focus and that was that was accounting. So, like, it was twofold. So, one was the decision to leave, but then the other that felt big was again, like that reverse back to that 180. That was bold then because again, it felt very unknown for me, and what that meant for my family and how things might potentially change was also then going back to accounting.

Hannah (00:04:59) - But everything happens for a reason, and I am so glad that, like all of that, like that experience, I wouldn't change. Like I would not trade that for anything. 

Joey (00:05:09) - You do it on your terms, which I think is important, like taking. Taking ownership is not the right word, but like having that be your decision that you're embracing and not something that was kind of forced upon you, I think is really I mean, it's in my opinion, it's what's what led to a lot of your success that we've had here, here at summit. Anders, is that you know? You were re-energized, came in, and this is what I now know I want.

Hannah (00:05:35) - Yes, it really did it. It really did and, you know, I saw some similarities in our guests today. Like, she's so energized by what she's doing. Like she has taken some bold leaps of faith at a young age. 

Hannah (00:05:49) - And I think that she could totally be an inspiration for somebody that's listening to this podcast for the path that she's chosen to take. She's passionate about what she does, and I think that was so fun to hear her come through. When we started talking about crypto, which got over my head, I did not know. I've learned how much, I don't know.

Joey (00:06:10) - I was faking it for most of it. Hannah, I'm going to be honest. Our guest is Mackenzie Patel, and she's the C, she is a CPA and the CEO and Founder of Hash Bases and there's some stuff in there if you want to learn more about her. She mentions it at the end of the show. We'll make sure to put them in the show notes but to Hannah's point, yeah, I was thoroughly impressed with, you know, I think back to when I was her age and it's funny because we do talk about some generational divides that made me feel like an old today.

Joey (00:06:38) - I'm old in certain way, shape and form but like thinking back to when she, when I was her age, like, she has her life like, so much more figured out than I did. Like, I was just like a mess, like. Yeah, and if you wanted to be like, hey, Joey, you should, like, handle running a firm and hiring employees and doing all these things and creating this plan for yourself. I'd have been like, dude, I just I'm just trying to, like, put food on the table. Yeah, I'm just trying, like, I forgot to buy ant traps. So, now there's ants in my house, in my apartment, and now I need to go do this because they're everywhere. Like, that was me at 26. She's over here running her own accounting firm. So, anyways.

Hannah (00:07:21) - She's like, running the world. Like, I think she's incredible. Like, I can't wait for us to touch base with her again in a few years just to see, like, where she's at, like, just to keep up with her.

Hannah (00:07:32) - So, yeah, I'm excited for our listeners to tune in to this episode. We even throw in a little trash TV talk, we're having a really good time, y'all. So, I cannot wait for y'all to hear from McKenzie and potentially connect with her after the show.

Joey (00:07:50) - In terms of like, what we're hoping to cover today. Like it can be anything and everything. Like your journey, how you found accounting, like how your first couple of years as a firm owner have been like, I.

Hannah (00:08:00) - Want to send you in that because I feel like that is so impressive and like you're so bold and so brave and I just love that, like, you're young and you're willing to take that step and I think that our listeners need to hear about that journey. Yeah. That's a big deal. Yeah.

Joey (00:08:15) - Yeah. That's a that's a jean like that kind of like entrepreneurial type. Like I'm way too risk averse, especially at.

Joey (00:08:24) - You know, you mentioned you're in your mid 20s, like at that time in my life, like I was like, I'm eating at Campbell's Chunky Soup. I'm doing this, I'm studying for the CPA exam. Like if you try to add like being a firm like owner, like an owner of a firm, like responsible for like other people. I don't know if I'm from a maturity perspective or emotional perspective. Like could have handled that. So, I have so much admiration for you. Just like taking that step and like taking control of your future because I think that's something that. We have seen. A lot from like our generation. I'm about ten years older than you in terms of all my friends I went to school with were so disenchanted with it. We're all just like we have no like we can't control our future. We can't control our destiny. We're just sort of taking what the industry gives us. And it's leading to some weird, not weird, but like some different decisions that people are making.

Joey (00:09:24) - So, I think.

MacKenzie (00:09:26) - Especially when I come out of college, it's always like, you just must go to big forward. That's the one path that they lay out for you because I went to University of Florida, which is a big like Southern State School, and that was really like the main purpose of doing an accounting major and I interned for three summers at Deloitte, and I actually hated it, like every summer and so, I was like, maybe next summer will get better but I was like, this is not for m and so, I was like, I don't want to be caught in this trap that everyone kind of knows they're getting into already, but I just didn't want to waste the time, you know?

Joey (00:09:54) - No, I think you.

Hannah (00:09:55) - Figured that out pretty early. Yeah, instead of, like, going into it, thinking it'll get better, it'll get better, it'll get better. Then suddenly you look up and it's 6 or 7 years later and you're like, wow.

Hannah (00:10:04) - Like it still didn't get better. So, you figure that out early. So, take us on that journey of, you know, yes, you were the intern. Like what really was that like pivotal moment where it's like, you know what, I see a need. I feel like I want to fill it and what did that look like for you?

MacKenzie (00:10:20) - Yeah, definitely. So, if we go back to it, I think it was my freshman year. So, the big four starts recruiting freshman year now. It's crazy. And I think they're even going back to high school now. So, I was part of this. They called it a pioneer program. So, you just kind of go to the office, go to some clients and play the role of an intern. You don't do any work because you know you're an intern, but for me, what struck me was the lack of time you had for yourself. Like I wake up at, let's say like 6 a.m. and then I'd have to take public transportation and go to the office, maybe drive to a client site.

MacKenzie (00:10:47) - And I want to be home to like 7:30 or 8:00 and I felt like my day was over and I was like, wow, is this really all that's left for me? Like once I graduate? So, that's how I figured out quickly that that wasn't the path for me. But it was hard because all my friends, they were doing the core, so, I thought I was the crazy one. I was like, is it me or is it everybody else? But, I mean, I think it depends on the person. I found out that wasn't what I was meant to do. So, when I graduated, I didn't do the big four. I did industry accounting. So, I went to Honeywell, and they had this called a Future Finance Leader program, where you just do rotations and basically corporate accounting and corporate finance meeting and investor relations and that was way more my speed. Because there was a work life balance, people valued my work and cared about me.

MacKenzie (00:11:32) - So, I think that was like the perfect soft landing after I graduated was going there first. So yeah, I did that and then so, do you have a question?

Joey (00:11:41) - No, that's an interesting observation about a big four because we've been critical of a big four. but I do think it's important to note that like that can be for certain people. My cousin is with Deloitte. He's on the consulting side, not the tax side, but that's worked well for him, and we joke all the time where we'd be like, we're. The last time we were in Saint Louis, I met up with him to play golf on my way out there and he was we were both talking about how like we speak the same language, we are taking like two completely different paths, and it works really well for him. It would not work well for me. And I think that's to McKinsey, kind of what you were saying like.

Joey (00:12:24) - That's where you need teachers, mentors, or guidance counselors to come in and start reminding you, like, hey, there's so many different paths here. And I think the key to those is exposure, right? Like you said, you did three internships at Deloitte. And I want to kind of here from you a little bit about what sort of stuff you were doing on those internships, like, did you feel like you were getting a feel for the industry, or did you feel like you were just filling a role?

MacKenzie (00:12:52) - So, the first two definitely felt more like I was just getting the coffee, like doing like the hole puncher but that kind of made sense because I didn't really have any major accounting experience because this is after freshman, sophomore year, so that I understand but the third year I did the audit internship, which is like a full blown eight-week internship over the summer and I actually thought that was really that was great because they would actually have me drive to the client site and sit there for the whole day, because I did audit as well, and so, be there for like nine, ten hours with the audit senior and the manager just, you know, looking through the work papers and putting different things.

MacKenzie (00:13:25) - So, I thought that was really good exposure. Like if you wanted to do an audit, I think that was very representative of the job that you would be doing. But as I discovered, I was like, this is this is not for me because I thought it was cool, but it just didn't it just didn't do it for me. I was like, this is also very boring and kind of soul crushing. So, after that, like, nope, no thank you.

Joey (00:13:45) - Now that sums up my audit experience. I've done one, I've done one on it, and I'm like, okay, that's it. Never again.

Hannah (00:13:53) - Yeah. Same. I was like, this is not for me like this. It's not what I want to be doing, like I was I helped with the audit for my family is a part of a Native American tribe in South Alabama and so, I helped with that audit and like, I just remember, like, being in a conference room, like with the auditors, just helping work through that and thinking this was like an 8 or 9:00 at night.

Hannah (00:14:15) - And I was like, I want a family. Like, do these people in this room, you know, have families like kids and like they were there were, you know, plenty of females who I knew, like, just based on, like, chat across the table like that were moms and I'm like, what a sacrifice like that. This is for the sake of your career and I'm just like, there's got to be something like, this can't be all that. It is like there's got to be something better. So, I was like, audit probably not going to be for me.

MacKenzie (00:14:39) - Which is like going to Honeywell was such a breath of fresh air I think because I just didn't know it could really be that way and it was a fluke that I even found them like the, their recruiters came to our accounting building which I never happened before, was the first year they did it or were even allowed to and then when I did that internship. So, I did so many internships in college, it's ridiculous.

MacKenzie (00:14:56) - This is after my senior year, but I did the fifth year, and it was great. You get paid, you get to go somewhere during the summer like it was a win win and that was awesome. I went to Phoenix for a couple of months summer after senior year, and I just felt very welcomed in my work. I could see the impact my work had, and we got to practice public speaking and things that I thought were useful and representative of what working in the real world would be like, and it was. So, that's where I started full time, and as I said, it was a good first job out of college.

Joey (00:15:25) - So, I have a bit of a confession to make, and you'll laugh because you probably haven't had this happen to you yet, but there. There's going to come a time in five, six, seven years where you're going to realize something has happened and you're like, I no longer. I'm no longer young, right? And I wasn't sure what it was going to be for me.

Joey (00:15:43) - I thought it was going to be TikTok, but I'm like, no, I get tick tock. It's just fine. Right? And I love TikTok. TikTok is fantastic. I don't understand cryptocurrency.

Hannah (00:15:55) - Oh, same, same.

Joey (00:15:57) - And I know that girl that I was talking to. I know that's where you, you kind of like. That's sort of where your firm, and it's called hash bases is the name of your of.

MacKenzie (00:16:06) - Hash bases.

Joey (00:16:07) - Beautiful. I wanted to make sure I got that one right thinking about that from that perspective, like, you kind of made that decision to go off on your own, and you kind of identified that cryptocurrency. A, I don't disagree with you that I think it's probably the way of the future and the other thing that I think most accountants like, even those of us who've been here for a minute, like we don't know what we're doing. So, I think it's a really interesting space and its really kind of I would imagine it's an exciting space to be.

Joey (00:16:35) - So, can you talk a little bit about how you decided to kind of fall into that and make that your niche that you were going to focus on?

MacKenzie (00:16:43) - Yeah, I feel like it was very random. I just had a friend that was already in crypto, and he was on my friends from college, and then we just got to chatting and the really cool thing is that accounting, like normal accounting, is very similar to blockchain because blockchains are just distributed ledgers. Think of a bunch of servers that are all running the same code, and adding new blocks to the blockchain with transactions and accounting is just like we all run the general ledger like all the time. So, once I made that connection, I thought, okay, maybe this could be a way forward because I will say, like after doing corporate accounting for a while, I was getting kind of bored and I was considering switching out of accounting entirely because I just didn't see a path forward there and then I got into crypto, and then I just completely spent so much time researching.

MacKenzie (00:17:22) - I started this community called Phoenix Crypto when I was there, where I would just educate people on different crypto concepts like the basics of what's blockchain? How do you code up a demo on my Python? like what's Ethereum and what's the merger? And so, I just got really into it because it's very intellectually fascinating, because it's not just a technical aspect. There's a whole like moral aspect to it as well, I feel like. So, I just got very, very stimulated by it. So, that's how it happened that way and then, but I didn't immediately do crypto accounting. I just was into the crypto piece and was just buying some and like trading it on the side and it wasn't until I was ready to leave my job in corporate accounting that I thought, okay, maybe I'll, I'll stick to accounting, but I'll try something at a crypto startup or something in the crypto sphere and then that's where I got my next job, which was doing crypto finance and crypto accounting at a crypto infrastructure provider.

MacKenzie (00:18:09) - And so, once that I once I took that job, that kind of I feel like changed everything for me because it was so much exposure to things that I had no idea about. Like in college, we had one class that one time talked about crypto, and we had like one small project on how you would value crypto according to FASB and that was the only exposure, but this was just like drinking from the water hose. So, I just got very passionate and very excited about it.

Hannah (00:18:30) - I felt like in general, like accounting classes, like only scratched the surface when it comes to like what you actually experience. And I'm like, so not surprised. Like to hear in terms of your exposure and in class was just like this wee little like footnote about, you know, what is actually now you're literally full time job, like how you're serving the industry in general and so, I think that, like, you have this really huge opportunity to not just like educate your clients, educate us older millennials on what crypto is, but also educate like new accountants too, in terms of, hey, like, this is a whole space that you could come and like get really passionate about and really excited because like, I can hear the passion in your voice, like whenever you started talking about crypto like that excites me for you, that you've found something that you're just like, really passionate about and really excited about and, and like, just too short to feel that way about the work that you do.

Hannah (00:19:20) - So, I'm excited that you found that.

MacKenzie (00:19:22) - Yeah, and for me, like, along with this whole crypto journey, I just got really into accounting again. Like, I love doing journal entries. I love pulling financials and analyzing them and I just wasn't into that, and it was boring but for some reason I turned into an accounting Maxy. I just really love the actual technical work of doing it. So, I want this whole phase, but I read this summa, like Luke Apache's textbook, and I wrote this whole short story, like using examples from his textbook and I was like, wow, this is like the peak of me being a complete dork but whatever, I love it.

Joey (00:19:52) - There's nothing talking about that. Like, it's because there's certain things that like, you know, when you think about the origins of accounting, like it's 400 years old. Like we're still basically doing, you know, and you can have it doesn't matter whether you're using Xero, QuickBooks, Sage, any one of those things behind the scenes.

Joey (00:20:10) - It's the same stuff they were doing in ledgers. In fact, one of one of my kind of like, I don't want to call it a prize possession because it's not really a possession, but like one of the things that I loved digging into when I was an accounting student was we found after my grandmother passed away, a bunch of old ledger books, like the old green ledgers that were the original ledgers for the insurance business that my grandfather started in the 70s and ran with my dad. And like, it was hiding in someone, like in a box in the closet and it was from 1973 and I was like, oh, here's your double entry. Here's all the things there and like, those kinds of artifacts were really interesting to me as an accounting student talking about nerding out, like having those types of connections to things and I think that's what's really important is, you know, what you've done is you've made a connection to something that is intellectually stimulating beyond just the debits and credits or the technical accounting piece.

Joey (00:21:08) - That is interesting as well but there's other things there that I think are driving you, which is, you know, I think that's that was something that took me a long time to find in my career was like, what is that thing that's going to keep me going when maybe it's 5:30 and I'm tired and I want to be done for the day, but I need to get my work done. So, kudos to you for finding that at this point in your career. It took me until I was 30.

Hannah (00:21:32) - Or what would you say?

Hannah (00:21:33) - It's the hardest part about that though, because I do feel like it takes just this entrepreneurial gumption to, like, really want to take that leap because, like, you can get really passionate about crypto, but then go work for somebody else who's already doing it. So, like, what made you decide, hey, I want to do this for myself.

MacKenzie (00:21:50) - It's a great question and just to get back to Joey's point. So, accountants are risk averse, and I feel like I'm also a little risk averse, even though I am in crypto.

MacKenzie (00:21:57) - So, I wasn't I wasn't going to leave if I didn't know it was going to be kind of a sure thing. Like once I actually left my the job of the crypto startup and so really it was kind of driven by supply and demand, as geeky as that sounds like, I just had people coming to me asking for me to do their crypto taxes and like people trying to get in contact with me for just these random crypto accounting projects, because I would post some articles and do some speeches and stuff about this topic, and that's drew a lot of demand and so once I had to crew like enough people, I was kind of doing work for on the side and I figured, okay, like I'll start my own firm. So, it was more it's not like starting like a true product startup where you don't know if there's going to be product market fit. You're trying to get all this VC money. I just happened to do it because I already had a small client base that was building up, and I figured, why not? Like, would I rather work for somebody or work for myself? And then I was, okay, I won't work for myself because my grandfather, he also started businesses background from in Florida, but he started bowling centers in Saint Petersburg.

MacKenzie (00:22:52) - But we're from and so I always grew up around going to the bowling centers and he would always instill professionalism, excellence, entrepreneurship since I came out of the womb basically and so, I felt like this was like the natural path forward, or at least I wanted to try it. Like if it doesn't work out fine, like accounting is a very windy profession, I can do whatever, but I wanted to ask him to go.

Joey (00:23:11) - No, I think that's a great way to think about it is, you know, even if. You know, like thinking about what Hannah and I do. Right? If there was, let's say ten years down the road, the market changes or whatever, and you're, like, looking for another opportunity, having ten years as an entrepreneur, running your own business, you could walk into a virtual CFO shop and basically bring a different level of consulting as a business owner that Hannah and I don't have, we have to pull anecdotally, you could pull from actual experience and say like, hey, when I was a business owner, here's what I did.

Joey (00:23:42) - You know, here's what worked for me, here's what didn't work for me. Here's the types of things I was looking for. Maybe you should look for these same things too. So, again, you're still building a skill set to where your downside there is kind of kind of protected and covered from that perspective.

MacKenzie (00:23:57) - Yeah, definitely and I think just working with so many clients has been the biggest learnings, but also the biggest joy of it, because I think about one of my interview questions that I asked people because I'm trying to hire right now, which is like a whole other process. Yeah, it's like what gets you out of bed every day and so of course, I ask myself that question. It's like, I really just love digging into my customers' problems because it's always a new problem. Crypto is so new. There's never a standard procedure to do anything and so, there's lots of research and that's what really gets me motivated in the morning is like, let me solve this really niche problem that you have, make the customer really happy and just alleviate a worry that they might have, and then use that knowledge and hopefully carry it forward to another customer because no one does crypto accounting.

MacKenzie (00:24:37) - So, it's just a complete lack of talent in the field right now. So, that's why we're getting so much business and I'm also trying to educate more accountants like, hey, this is an interesting space. Like it is risky, and we have had our fair share of that, actors like SBF and CC and all these people but that's I think that comes with any emerging industry and you just have to ignore that and just like put your head down and just work really hard.

Joey (00:24:59) - Well, and I think the other challenge with crypto too, is, is, you know, you talked about like your class A and B and how fast B is going to have you do it like they're changing their writing the rules on how to do all this stuff as we speak, which, you know, as our firm is evolving, we're having to write some processes and do some things kind of like build the plane as we fly and certain things, and that's difficult. Like that's a tough space to live in and just be like, I'm just going to embrace the mess a little bit on that.

Joey (00:25:26) - And I would imagine that's challenging, but also a little bit exciting where you're like, okay, there is going to be at some point, you know, and I do I do think blockchain is going to be the future once we kind of figure out, like I think about it from an audit perspective, right. You know, sampling these things will completely change with the blockchain. If we get everything on blockchain, you can now audit the entire ledger, not just a sample of it because it's all automated. It's all in the it's all in the cloud. You don't have to pull from things. So, it's a really interesting product from an accounting perspective that I think needs to be utilized. It's just how do we get there? How do we get everybody unified on what the standards are, what the rules are, and eventually it's going to kind of even out, which I'm really kind of excited for.

MacKenzie (00:26:15) - Yeah, and I don't I don't think we're there yet.

MacKenzie (00:26:17) - Blockchain is still really early in the sense that the UIs are really terrible. There's a lot of scams still happening. Like I was doing the books for cash basis yesterday, and I realized that someone stole $700 out of my wallet, and I was like, what the heck? So, I guess I accidentally signed something I shouldn't have and so that, like, that kind of story is very common though. So, we need to eliminate all that, the riff raff that's going on to actually have the industry move forward. And it's interesting you mentioned that it's a really good audit tool and I think it is, but right now it's just the data is very messy when you're trying to pull from all these different blockchains. It's not standardized, so trying to audit that is much more difficult than you might imagine, because usually we use pages called block explorers there think of them as like Google for blockchains. You can put in specific transaction details, but a lot of times there is no block explorer.

MacKenzie (00:27:02) - And so, the auditors don't know how to pull it. They had to run their own node basically, which is expensive. So, a lot of firms aren't doing that. So, it's still very messy, both on the actual accounting and the auditing side.

Hannah (00:27:13) - Well, like y'all just.

Hannah (00:27:14) - Use a bunch of words that like, I don't know, like, not going to lie. Like there's a lot of lingo that I feel like just went right over my head. So, I'm excited to know about it and again, I think that's just literally showing the opportunity that we have to educate on all of this because it is so feels so foreign to me.

Joey (00:27:37) - Oh, and I think there's another opportunity here too and I think this is this has probably been a challenge. You've noticed maybe more on your customer side than your side, but maybe you have some exposure here to is the method for, for using cryptocurrency and the idea of stability is something that I think we're going to need to see over the next couple of years.

Joey (00:27:56) - Your main cryptocurrency for the last number of years has been Bitcoin. It's kind of been the gold standard. Would you agree with that?

MacKenzie (00:28:02) - Yeah. Bitcoin and right underneath that is ETH I think it's very popular too.

Joey (00:28:06) - Yeah. So, like when I think about how that's gone over the last ten years it's been an incredibly volatile thing. Right? It's just all over the place. So, I'm like yeah, eventually I would imagine that if we want to treat cryptocurrency like the new version of gold, which is an interesting idea, I like that idea from like a, just like a practical perspective. Right? You're basically creating digital gold, which I think is great. The challenge is, for that to be an actual medium of exchange, that exchange rate volatility must narrow itself down to be more stable. Otherwise, it will continue to be speculative, and we're not going to use it for other types of transactions, but I think the future is bright from that once it matures more as an industry.

Joey (00:28:56) - So, I'm really excited to see where it's going to go.

MacKenzie (00:28:59) - And that's why I have stablecoins as well. So, people aren't transacting in Bitcoin or ETH as a true exchange medium. People are using USDC, which is put up, put up by circle or tether. So, we are starting to see that. But it's still pegged to the dollar. Right? So, it's not like a truly crypto native type of currency. It's like, why are we building the same thing that we have in traditional finance just on a computer, which maybe that is the way forward, but it kind of ignores the ethos of why bitcoin and crypto started in the first place, right?

Joey (00:29:27) - Yeah. No. It feels like it's a little bit. I don't know what the word I'm trying to use is to describe it, but it does feel that feels a little bit antithetical to tie it to your traditional banking structure. When the whole idea was to decentralize away from the banking structure. So, anyways, I mean, we could nerd out about this forever, but I want to get back to talking a little bit more about you and sort of where you're going.

Joey (00:29:50) - So, you're, what, about two years in at this point to your firm?

MacKenzie (00:29:54) - Just one year. We celebrated our one year on February 15th.

Joey (00:29:57) - Oh, congratulations. Exciting.

Hannah (00:29:58) - Thank you.

MacKenzie (00:29:59) - We made it.

Hannah (00:30:00) - Yes.

Joey (00:30:03) - What does in terms of what you're wanting to build, what does the future of your firm look like?

MacKenzie (00:30:11) - I want to.

MacKenzie (00:30:11) - Build also sorry. Is that dog showing up or hearing for everybody? Do you guys hear that?

Hannah (00:30:15) - It's me.

Hannah (00:30:15) - It's my dog that have gone absolutely berserk. They're fine all day long until I'm on a podcast and they're like, hello, I'm here too. I'm so sorry.

MacKenzie (00:30:25) - It's okay.

MacKenzie (00:30:26) - They're not going to come through the audio or anything.

Hannah (00:30:29) - I think Rob, ours.

Hannah (00:30:30) - Producer, okay.

Joey (00:30:31) - He’s a producer and he works his magic.

MacKenzie (00:30:35) - Oh that's funny. Okay.

Hannah (00:30:39) - Thank you.

Hannah (00:30:41) - Thank you. 

Joey (00:30:44) - Hey. Rocks. I'll go ahead and I'll go ahead and reframe the question here real quick. That way we can have a fresh start there and MacKenzie, this is why whenever Rob says, Joey, we're going to do a live show, I'm like, no, we're not.

Joey (00:30:56) - Joey's really good in a non-live environment, but it would have been a live one. It's not going to go good.

MacKenzie (00:31:01) - Dogs go crazy.

Joey (00:31:03) - Okay, so, you just celebrated your one-year anniversary of the firm you said on February 15th. So, when you think about where you are now and where you want to go, what does that roadmap look like for you in terms of what you're trying to build? And, you know, I don't want I don't want to hold you to timelines, but like, you know, just kind of get a feel for what your future looks like.

MacKenzie (00:31:26) - Definitely. My envision is to have a boutique crypto accounting and tax firm, and my whole slogan is, I want to be the premier crypto accounting firm in the US. Maybe in the world, who knows, but I don't. I don't want this huge like mid-market type of firm. I'd love to have, you know, myself working with maybe ten other people and just working really closely together to have just a phenomenal product and actually being able to manage our customers and being there when they actually need us, instead of just setting them up and then forgetting about them.

MacKenzie (00:31:52) - So, basically end to end service and I really love the idea of doing accounting and tax under the same roof. We just started out doing it, but then a lot of our customers are like, hey, can you just do our tax returns as well? And my, my taxes are a little bit weak. So, I hired a contractor to help me out there but it's working really seamlessly now because I know exactly what's going on their books, which informs the taxes and in my opinion, I think the tax prep is a little bit easier with the numbers are clean, there's just some scope to tax differences and more deadlines but yeah, I really like that that end to end type of solution there. So, that's my that's my dream I guess you could call it more of a lifestyle firm and I have had people trying to get me to scale this up and make it like a huge operation, but I just don't really want to operate that way. I want to still be very personable and be able to talk and know all of my different clients, because it's also like a flexibility thing as well.

MacKenzie (00:32:39) - Like, I want to start a family in a couple years and so, I don't want all this pressure to run this big firm on my shoulders. I don't have myself, some core people around me and then if I need to step back to raise my kids or do part time like this will allow me that flexibility. So, that's how you.

Hannah (00:32:53) - Figured that out. I love that you've identified that for yourself and that you're setting boundaries around what that is for you, because I think it can be really tempting, especially whenever you're in growth mode, to just like hustle, hustle, hustle, like try to get it up to this point while you're young and while you don't have a family but I love that you're looking forward to like, no, like I want a family and I know what the implications of if I do grow this beyond what I can manage would mean for that for myself and so, I love that you're really staying true to that and I know you mentioned you said that you're hiring.

Hannah (00:33:25) - Like, how is that process going for you? Like, what does that look like? Like, I feel like that is like an interesting now like shifting from, you know, you are figuring this out on your own to now potentially bringing somebody else into the fold. So, how's that going?

MacKenzie (00:33:40) - Oh, Hannah, that's I'm trying.

Joey (00:33:42) - HR is so hard.

Joey (00:33:44) - Yeah, it's really hard.

MacKenzie (00:33:46) - Not my thing. Like it feels like dating. So, I'm trying to find the right person. But for a lot of people, I talk to you like there's something that's like, not quite right. It's like, oh, that feels just like dating. Like, luckily, I found my fiancé, like, really quickly. So, I got really lucky that way but like, everything else is just hard, like, so, hiring has been definitely a challenge because I'm not used to it whatsoever and it's our first full time hire, so, I'm putting a lot of care and effort into it, because this person will drive the culture and the direction of the firm.

MacKenzie (00:34:13) - And I think if I make a big mistake here, it's going to be detrimental for hash spaces. So, I have somewhat of a process developed. There's a screening call and then I have like a behavioral call but really, I'm trying to get to the essence of who the person actually is. So, I ask like really in-depth questions. Like as I said, like, why do you like what gets you up every morning? Or what's your what's your working style like? What do you see for yourself in ten years? What do you want to do? So, instead of asking like the normal questions, I'm just trying to have a very candid conversation about who you are. I'll let you know who I am. We'll see if there's a fit there and then there's more technical, like a technical accounting case study. I guess I'm still figuring that piece out, but yeah, I'm still on the lookout for a senior crypto accountant, which is very hard to find someone that actually has crypto experience before.

MacKenzie (00:34:55) - So, if they don't have it, that's fine. I'm willing to train because I think this is a very niche role that I'm looking for, but it's just a lot of second guessing, I think where it's like, oh, am I overthinking this or am I under thinking it? Plus, recruiters are so expensive. Like if I pay somebody 80 grand, 20% of that is what, like 16 grand, I think and so that's just a really big cost when like we're bootstrapped, we don't have any outside funding. So, it's all coming from my pocket, it feels like. So, I'm trying to put a lot of care into it.

Joey (00:35:23) - It your story. That reminds me of a lot of conversations I've had with our bosses, Jodi and Adam here, who kind of started summit and they when they started our firm, which we've now merged with a much larger firm but like our little division in the firm, when they started it in, I think it was like two and three like this idea of we're going to do virtual CFO services.

Joey (00:35:46) - Like that was kind of unheard of, like tax hat. There were two things you could do tax; you could do audit, or you could do bookkeeping right? And this idea of, well, we're going to do all of those things, but also, we're going to like help drive your business. That was kind of revolutionary at the time and what I've heard from them is the same challenge you're going through now, which is I've got 2 or 3 hires that I have to make, and these are going to be the future of the firm. And when I look back at our firm, I'm like, oh, Jake, our director of IT first CFO hire, they made Jamie our director of accounting I think second CFO hire they made. So, like your two most important people. Two of the most important people in the firm were some of the earliest hires, like employees, like five and six like it was. That might be getting the employee numbers wrong. Guys, forgive me if I got the wrong, but the ethos of the idea is the same, right? Like these folks that we hired are now so integral to our organization that it wouldn't be the organization without them.

Joey (00:36:46) - So, I'm glad you're taking some real care there to make sure that, you know, and I guess your analogy about dating is 100% correct, because that's really what it is but I'm proud of you that you're making that decision to like, I'm not just going to focus on the technical aspects. I have got to make sure that this is someone that I can work with long term.

MacKenzie (00:37:03) - Exactly. And I was asked like, what are your personality quirks? Because I feel like it's a very important component and being able to work together and so, I tend to be a very excitable person. I'm a stickler for details. Ariel ten is like my go to formatting. If it's not that, I will reformat it. So, I let people know that up front because maybe they don't want to work with me either. Like, you have to be very self-aware during the hiring process.

Hannah (00:37:23) - Maybe there are times to be in person.

Joey (00:37:24) - I know that I'm out of here by the slander. 

MacKenzie (00:37:33) - Do you guys use Excel or Google Sheets? Because that's a point of contention.

Hannah (00:37:36) - I've discovered both.

Joey (00:37:37) - Okay, yeah, okay but I work for a guy who, when we were creating our workbooks for because we had like a client specific workbook, whenever the consult was coming up and I'd finish prepping the workbook, his one piece of feedback was, hey, when you're done, I need you to move the workbook back to the cover page and I need you to highlight cell A1 for me so that when I open the workbook and I was like, but it was a wonderful lesson because I was like, oh, attention to detail because what all he sees is when he opens up the workbook, that's the first thing the client sees. And that was the name cell. So, he was like, I want it open and highlighted on the name cell because that's the client. And he had to tell me once and I was like, oh, dude, I get it. I get it now but those are those types of things where when you're trying to build and you're trying to make sure it's great.

Joey (00:38:29) - Like that's a level of I think the word you use was self-awareness. Like, I can tell you right now, my worst personality quirk is that I don't have any other references to make other than sports references. So, if you get me in front of a client that doesn't talk about sports, I'm like, man, what are we going to talk about? Star Wars? Like, I got nothing for you, dude. I can give you all the UNM Lobos and Kansas State football analogies that you're going to want, but if those aren't resonating for you, this is not going to be a good partnership and that's my that's my weakness that I'm trying to solve now is diversifying my consulting skills there but if you can get someone in that interview question was like, yeah, I just, you know, details don't excite me. Like I need to be in the big picture. That type of self-awareness is important, whereas someone else could try to be like, yeah, I can do anything you need me to do.

Joey (00:39:17) - That’s a lack of self-awareness that would concern me as a potential.

Hannah (00:39:22) - Do you have any.

Hannah (00:39:23) - Like, quirks that people have said that you're like, that's a big no for me. That's a red flag. Does anybody.

Hannah (00:39:28) - Like that?

Hannah (00:39:29) - Anything that you're like, no, can't do it.

MacKenzie (00:39:32) - Oh, the idea that I didn't like. Not yet. So, far on because I've only interviewed like three people at that stage and the quirks have been things I can handle. A lot of that have been formatting quirks. So, I think accountants are just weird about that, but I'm okay with that. Someone said that they hate typos. Like if they see a typo, they'll fix it, but I was like, yes. Like if there's a typo, you should fix it.

Joey (00:39:52) - Yes, yes.

MacKenzie (00:39:53) - Professional things to have that. So, nothing's been no one said, like a really weird quirk where I was like, like, I don't like that. Not yet.

Joey (00:39:59) - I have I have a hot take formatting question for you that I saw on Twitter over the weekend.

Joey (00:40:05) - So, and I think this is going to spawn across generations. So, I'm curious after a period, do you do one space or two?

Hannah (00:40:14) - One, two. You did too. Well, I think. Joey, you're so old. That.

Hannah (00:40:19) - Is that an old person thing, Joey?

Joey (00:40:21) - That's what.

Joey (00:40:22) - I'm saying. Like there's a generational divide. So, that's an old typewriter format, right? So, when you think back about to like, because I started, I remember I had my first typing class when I was in elementary school, which had been like 1996, so, or maybe a little bit early. It was in the early 90s and there was Mavis. Oh, Rox, get out of here. We are still friends. It's two spaces.

Hannah (00:40:43) - It's one space.

Joey (00:40:45) - It was always like, but that's how we were taught, right? And then, like, I don't know, 4 or 5 years after, like Mavis, not Mavis Beacon one, but like Mavis Beacon five, they started doing the one space.

Joey (00:40:57) - So, anybody from like 34 and up, we're always going to be two space people.

MacKenzie (00:41:03) - Wow.

Joey (00:41:05) - Down below is one. So, like that's a four.

Hannah (00:41:07) - My husband is 40, my husbands about 41 and he's a two-space guy. So, it's like a clear divide.

Joey (00:41:13) - There's a clear relation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

MacKenzie (00:41:17) - Type on a typewriter. Not like a computer keyboard.

Joey (00:41:20) - Oh no, no, we still learn but like all of the, like all of the formatting stuff, like they hadn't updated the rules yet. So, like in Mavis Beacon one and two, like, it was always two spaces. So, like that two space and if you didn't do it like your teachers would go on your paper and like circle and be like, nope, two spaces please. Thank you and so like, you know, now you hear things like editors would be like, yeah, if I see you do two spaces, like I am going into all of your things and I am deleting the second space because we don't do that anymore.

Joey (00:41:46) - And I'm like, sorry, I've been typing this way since I was seven.

MacKenzie (00:41:51) - Does not show up.

MacKenzie (00:41:51) - As a typo, though.

Roxanne (00:41:52) - It's an Associated Press thing because space is money and so, in newspapers you space once because if you space twice, then it makes the whole thing bigger, and you pay for space for newspaper.

Hannah (00:42:07) - Learn something new every day.

Joey (00:42:10) - Everybody says hi to producer, Rox. Hi, producer, Rox. Thanks for coming to the show.

Hannah (00:42:14) - Dropping in the fun facts.

Joey (00:42:18) - Dropping in the fun facts. That was behind the scenes. I've been trying. I've been telling Rox. We need more Rox on the podcast, so I'm very happy.

MacKenzie (00:42:22) - I agree, yes.

Joey (00:42:25) - But yeah, that's one of those, like, weird things that I'm like, I don't you don't think about it until you start having that conversation and like. I'm sure I could retrain my body to do one space, but it would take a long time because there's just so much muscle memory in like, period space. Space like, that's just muscle man.

Hannah (00:42:42) - I love that you're asking people that. So, I don't know if you watch the show, but I watch Love Is Blind on Netflix.

Hannah (00:42:49) - And?

MacKenzie (00:42:50) - I'm not seeing it. I've seen the previews.

Joey (00:42:51) - Oh, no. Okay.

Hannah (00:42:54) - Like its trash television, but you just need to watch it but this one girl like she is, she did the same thing. Like with her guy in the pod. She asked him. She's like, okay, like, so, what are your ex? And so, they talked about their ex and so like for one of her, she was like, you know, Hawaiian shirts or like a no go for me. Like, absolutely not. She's like, how do you feel about motorcycles? And so, like, there were just certain things that she went through. However, this guy, like he loved Hawaiian shirt and that's what she ended up with and so, like she it's like come up multiple times in their relationship to like in the footage that they show.

Hannah (00:43:26) - So, I'm like, this is great that you're asking people what their little nuances are, because then at least, you know, like you're going into this relationship. I was quite open in terms of knowing what you're getting yourself into.

MacKenzie (00:43:40) - I think that that's it.

MacKenzie (00:43:41) - Also a good lesson, though, because I think some things are more surface level that you can get over, like the Hawaiian shirts or maybe the two periods. I can get over that, but I think some get to their actual essence and their character and I think that if you don't like something or, you know, something rubs you the wrong way on that level, it's much harder to look past that, I think.

Joey (00:43:58) - Yeah.

Joey (00:43:58) - Like I think back to my experience, like had I not ever been able to figure out that, like I needed to get that Excel workbook, like back to cell A1 on the first page, like. I would not have been able to work with my boss at that time.

Joey (00:44:14) - And that's not a reflection on him. That's a reflection on me right at that point where I'm like, look, this was a very simple instruction and what he needed to see from me was that I could remember this and follow through on it and do those types of things that needed to get done and, you know, it was a very small thing, but that was a very important thing and, you know, I am proud of myself for figuring that out but also like, you know, it's a good it's a good lesson to learn and yeah, I'll use the I'll use the dating thing. Right? It's great. Like, I'm sure there are things about me that drive my wife absolutely bananas. but it's all things that she was like, yep, I can live with it. It's fine. You know, there's certain things where she's like, if you if you don't do this, you know, I'm not saying there will be a homicide in your future, but I'm not saying it either.

Hannah (00:45:05) - Should give you.

Hannah (00:45:05) - Warning. Okay?

Joey (00:45:06) - Yeah. No. And I tell people all the time, you know, if something bad happens to me, it was probably crazy, but I probably deserved it. So, you know, go easy on her.

MacKenzie (00:45:15) - Yeah.

MacKenzie (00:45:16) - Okay. I need some marriage advice. I'm getting married in a couple of months. So, that is.

Hannah (00:45:20) - Oh, Congratulations! Yeah.

MacKenzie (00:45:23) - Yeah, it's a lot. Planning a wedding, hiring, apartment hunting.

Hannah (00:45:26) - You know, you're just doing.

MacKenzie (00:45:27) - You're just going right now.

Joey (00:45:29) - Do it all at once, right?

MacKenzie (00:45:31) - Oh, that. That's what I figured. Like, you know, life is just kind of in the fast lane right now, but it will definitely slow down next year and I'm just enjoying it. Well, I like it. You know, it's actually really fun. All the things.

Joey (00:45:40) - That's a that's a really interesting career. I'm going to kick it to Hannah first because Hannah's been married for significantly longer than I have.

Hannah (00:45:46) - Yeah, I've been married this year for 14 years. Yeah. Thanks. let's see some marriage advice. What is some marriage advice for you? You know, I would say, I know this is kind of a little random, but kind of actually ties back into the, like, hiring conversation. I would say, like, really take time to understand, like where your husband's like, or future husbands like weaknesses are and like, what they, what he might struggle with even from like a personality perspective. So, like, I love the Enneagram. Like I love the immigrants so much and I made my husband take the immigrant test just so, that way I could understand, like, what his strengths were like, even though like, I took it, I was like, oh yeah, like that makes sense but it really has helped me like learn how to communicate with him better. Like he knows things about me too, in terms of like how to communicate best with me. So, just really taking time to understand that and our love languages has been like so incredibly critical in, in our marriage.

Hannah (00:46:50) - And just being able to sure be sure that we can interact in ways that support each other and serve each other in the best way that that we possibly can.

MacKenzie (00:46:59) - So, what’s your love language?

MacKenzie (00:47:01) - I'm curious.

Hannah (00:47:02) - Acts of service. Hands down. It is my love language yes and like on the bottom of mine is like physical touch and that is.

Hannah (00:47:09) - The top.

Hannah (00:47:10) - Love language for my husband. So, like in like acts of service is the lowest. So, like it is something that we have to do for each other, we have to be very intentional on both sides of the spectrum. Yeah. Yeah. Great joy.

Joey (00:47:24) - Yeah. So, I've got, I got a couple different things here. Number one. So, I had never told the story on the podcast before. We had a relatively untraditional wedding. We went and just eloped and got married on the side of a mountain in Sedona, Arizona, which if you spent any time in Phoenix, you're probably familiar with. 

MacKenzie (00:47:42) - Yeah, definitely. It's beautiful.

Joey (00:47:43) - There was possibly a peyote fueled drum circle going on in the background on a different mountain, because we didn't know this at the time, but we got married on the full moon. There was definitely a shaman involved in some way, shape or form. You know, but what I loved about our wedding and we're celebrating our five-year anniversary here in March, not sorry March, May.

Hannah (00:48:07) - You better get that right, Joey.

Joey (00:48:10) - I know the date so, the idea behind it was like. When we were planning the wedding. So, both of our families are blended families. At this point her family and her parents got divorced when she was very young. Mine got divorced in my 30s, which that was another interesting life lesson was that, you know, it's going to be difficult no matter what age it happens. That's a story for a different podcast but the challenge that we were facing was that we were trying to make so many different people happy with our wedding that we kind of lost track of what made us happy.

Joey (00:48:48) - And we had to have an honest conversation with ourselves about how we're making, we're sacrificing this. We're sacrificing that. We're doing all these things. We're not going to get what we really want out of this and we finally were just like, look, let's just go and let's low and let's make it the two of us, and we'll go to a place that's really special and, and make it about us and less about everybody else and that was while, on the surface, kind of a selfish decision a little bit. It was also one that was really important for us because now when we look back, we have absolutely no regrets about anything, and I would do it again that way in a heartbeat. So, whatever decision you do make, make sure you're making it for the two of you and not for anybody else because it's your wedding to everybody else, it ends up becoming just another day that might not be. That might not be exactly true for everybody, but for a lot of folks there, it's another very fun day.

Joey (00:49:47) - But that's your day. Make it about you, the other and yes, and have a.

MacKenzie (00:49:53) - Yes.

Hannah (00:49:54) - On a full moon.

Hannah (00:49:55) - Yeah, but there's.

Joey (00:49:56) - The two people who signed our wedding certificate. Like, I've never met them before. I, I don't know, I couldn't pick them out in a crowd. They're just the two people on the side of the mountain who signed the marriage certificate.

MacKenzie (00:50:09) - Amazing.

Joey (00:50:11) - The other thing too, like speaking back to Hannah and her point. One thing that I really struggled with that I had to learn how to do was, was communicate a little bit better. I tended to bottle up my feelings and my emotions and one of the things that I and it's so cliche, but it's really true. Try not to go to bed angry. It's just not good.

Hannah (00:50:33) - Yeah.

Joey (00:50:33) - Because then you just wake up the next day and now, now your bad day has turned into two and you know, that's you know, I grew up in a household where, you know, conflict was seen as a negative.

Joey (00:50:47) - Constructive conflict can be okay. It's when it starts to get unconstructive it starts to get personal. It starts to be, you know.

Joey (00:50:58) - I don't want to use the words petty or jealous, but those are the two that come to mind. That can be that can be bad. So, you know, learning how to communicate and having somewhat difficult conversations a little bit earlier that's something I wish I was better at that. I'm still trying to get better after five years.

Hannah (00:51:16) - In who knew.

Hannah (00:51:17) - That this show is going to turn into just marriage and dating advice.

MacKenzie (00:51:20) - Love is Blind. There you go

Hannah (00:51:21) - Love is Blind. Yes, I love this.

Joey (00:51:25) - Well, I had I had a fun question to kind of end it off, Hannah, because, you know, Mackenzie, we do love to talk about business, but we also kind of want to have people learn who you are and learn who we are and Hannah brought up one of my favorite topics, which is trash TV shows.

Joey (00:51:41) - And I want to know if either of you have. I know Hannah, you watch Love Is Blind, but clearly is that your biggest one? Is that your biggest fights on the trash TV.

Hannah (00:51:49) - Side right now?

Hannah (00:51:50) - Yes.

Joey (00:51:52) - Okay. What about all time?

Hannah (00:51:54) - The Bachelor and Bachelorette like that is the train wreck that I cannot look away from that I've watched since season one.

Joey (00:52:01) - I was just saying, what are we? We're on like, season 20 now, right?

Hannah (00:52:05) - I've lost track.

Hannah (00:52:06) - Like to the point.

Joey (00:52:06) - Where the original Bachelor is now the host.

Hannah (00:52:09) - Yes.

Hannah (00:52:09) - And. Well, yeah. And now we're, like, dipping into a new generation of bachelors and bachelorettes. We're going to the golden generation. We have had our first golden Bachelorette bachelor, and we're about to have our first golden bachelorette.

MacKenzie (00:52:25) - What is that? Is that.

Hannah (00:52:26) - Somebody.

Hannah (00:52:27) - That is or boomers?

MacKenzie (00:52:29) - I think we're on the other side. Okay. Wow. That's curious. Okay. It is.

Hannah (00:52:36) - It makes for good television.

Joey (00:52:38) - It's certainly a programming choice. We'll say that much.

Hannah (00:52:41) - Yes, exactly.

Hannah (00:52:43) - Okay.

Joey (00:52:43) - What about you?

Hannah (00:52:44) - Like TV of.

Hannah (00:52:45) - Choice? Yeah.

Joey (00:52:45) - When you just seem to like. So, like I just need to turn off my brain for five minutes.

Joey (00:52:50) - What are you watching?

MacKenzie (00:52:51) - So, I have been more of a genre. Instead of watching, I have two, two genres instead of, like one TV show versus anime. I love anime like Attack on Titan, jujutsu Kaisen, HunterXHunter. Like, I'm really into all of that but I wouldn't say trash TV. I would say that it is art, so that I might exclude that but the second one is definitely trash TV. It's like teen rom coms and like, love shows. Those are still good. Like the summer I turned pretty peak TV. It's amazing. It's so good. Yeah.

Hannah (00:53:20) - So, all the boys I love before.

Hannah (00:53:22) - Yes, the kissing Booth like all of those.

Hannah (00:53:25) - So, they're really good.

MacKenzie (00:53:26) - It makes me nostalgic, even though that that was not my high school experience.

MacKenzie (00:53:30) - I did not date at all really, until college but I like to think that maybe I was like that effervescent back in the day but really, I'm just lying to myself.

Hannah (00:53:39) - Joey, is your trash TV just trash talking basketball games? Is that your version of trashy? Like, what is it?

Joey (00:53:46) - So, my television tastes are very eclectic, and I have watched most of the shows. My wife and I watch them. We do since we don't have kids and we have cats that don't require long walks, we get to watch a lot of TV, which is, you know, a lifestyle choice that we have made for ourselves, and we're pretty happy with that, to be honest. My favorite television show of all time is the OC.

Hannah (00:54:08) - Oh, so.

Joey (00:54:09) - Anything that Josh Schwartz made, I'm all in on. So, if it's the OC. I've seen all of Gossip Girl twice.

Hannah (00:54:16) - Oh.

Joey (00:54:17) - Gossip girl is fantastic. Like when we go to New York later this year, we will be eating breakfast on the met steps.

Joey (00:54:24) - Like, that's just something that is going to have to happen. Heart of Dixie, another Josh Schwartz joint. That is.

Hannah (00:54:32) - Terrible acting but really great.

Joey (00:54:33) - Really underrated. I think we're really into the Virgin River. We like that. mostly just for the views. Like the views in that show were fantastic. I think that's really where it is, like, I, I can't go to sports to your point, for like, relaxation and turning my brain off because then I just end up yelling at the TV and that's not good or as my wife likes to point out, she'll occasionally like snap photos of me when I'm, like, watching my sports teams because I can't sit down. I have to stand in front of the TV, and I pace and I go into the power stance and I'm clapping and she's just like taking videos and sending them to her family like my husband's a moron. It's true.

MacKenzie (00:55:12) - You're passionate, you're passionate. You reframe it.

Joey (00:55:16) - Morons, morons. It's fine.

Joey (00:55:19) - But it is.

Joey (00:55:19) - It is kind of one of those things where we do try to find, like, kind of a little bit of escapism through that was it Emily in Paris?

Hannah (00:55:27) - Oh, yeah.

Joey (00:55:28) - That's probably Tracy's favorite show right now is like, because she's like, it's just the fashion. It's the fun, and it's a little bit. 

MacKenzie (00:55:35) - It's the Guy.

Joey (00:55:36) - Yeah. The guy. Yeah.

Hannah (00:55:37) - That too. That doesn't.

Hannah (00:55:39) - Help. That doesn't hurt.

Joey (00:55:41) - We have another agreement where it's like, look, we're just like, we'll use Gossip Girl, for instance. Like, sorry, we have to be able to just talk about Blake Lively and I was like, Tracy, if you just need to talk about Ryan Reynolds, okay? That's cool. Like, we can have a conversation about Ryan Reynolds. Like, I get it, I get it.

Hannah (00:55:57) - So, share the love that. Well, McKenzie, thank you so much for coming on the show with us and chatting about all the things like this is such a fun conversation and congratulations on your first year in business and your upcoming marriage.

Hannah (00:56:11) - Like, you just have so much going on and like, I can't wait to connect with you again because I feel like we have plenty more conversations in our future and like, I'm excited to follow you on this journey. So, if our listeners want to connect with you outside of this podcast, what's the best way for them to do that?

MacKenzie (00:56:25) - At first is going to our website, XYZ and then I'm also really active on LinkedIn. I love posting articles and just little snippets on there, so it's just my name, Mackenzie Patel on LinkedIn.

Joey (00:56:36) - Well, thank you so much for joining. This has been a blast. That's been that was a very quick 48 minutes. So, yeah, looking forward to touching base soon and all the best moving forward.

MacKenzie (00:56:46) - Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Outro (00:56:47) - If you're a Young CPA looking to develop in their careers, we're always looking for great people. Visit our website for remote work opportunities with Summit Virtual CFO or find all our open positions at Anders CPAs and advisors.