The Young CPA Success Show: Episode 27

Joey and Hannah welcome Peter Margaritis, also known as The Accidental Accountant. They delve into the critical role of communication and storytelling in the accounting profession. They discuss the necessity for accountants, especially those just starting out, to effectively translate complex financial jargon into understandable language for clients. Emphasizing personal connection, they share experiences and strategies for improving these skills, including practice with non-accountants and adapting to various client personalities using tools like the DiSC model. The episode also highlights Oklahoma State University's efforts to integrate these vital communication and client service skills into their accounting curriculum.

Intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Young CPA Success Show. If you're a young accounting professional, this podcast is your ultimate guide to navigating your early career. Join us as we share valuable insights, expert advice, and practical tips to help you kickstart your path to success and excel in the accounting industry. Let's embark on this exciting accounting journey together.

Joey (00:00:22) - Well, I remember when I was thinking about our retreat at Nashville. The thing that I remember the most about your talk, and it's been a couple of years, so, but it still sticks with me is that our job as accountants is to translate this foreign language that business owners don't really understand into something that they understand and I think that's when people ask me, like, Joey, how did you get into consulting? I'm like, that's the number one thing you have to learn how to do is communicate and translate. So, I wanted to sit there and start talking about that because I think that's a skill that is both underappreciated but also, it's really difficult to learn how to do that when you're thinking about what young accountants need to learn, how do they start going down that path correctly in their career?

Peter (00:01:13) - Well, it starts in the classroom, starts with the instructors and but in the classroom, they're trying to get them ready for the CPA exam.

Peter (00:01:22) - Bottom line. Yeah. So, you know, what we're doing at Oklahoma State University was we were bringing these professional development workshops in like financial storytelling and competitive, doing presentations and putting that in as co-curricular type of stuff to get them start thinking down that path, because what you don't want them to do is come out and just be so technically knowledgeable that they can't communicate that they're the accounting language into plain English and one of my it's not really a favorite story, but it's a real compelling story is a friend of mine, needed to find a new CPA firm, and I actually her CPA was her husband. She fired him because her business was growing, and he was doing the same thing. He was just a finance guy just dropping stuff off and saying, here you go. And she didn't know anything about it. So, I turned around to a small firm and, in Ohio, and it got to a real rocky start. Now, my friend, my client, she's a performing arts major. She's never had a business course in her life, but she runs one hell of a business.

Peter (00:02:33) - I mean, her income statement is ten times better than mine ever looks, and so, but she wants to learn more and at one time, that was about ten months in relationship. She had gotten off a client call, a zoom call with the CPA firm, and she was in tears. So, I got her on the zoom call, and she goes, they made me feel stupid again. I don't know what a distribution is. I don't know what this isn't that they're leaving it in that language and I know they're not trying to do it on purpose, but I don't understand, and it makes me feel stupid and then they put the excel spreadsheet from hell on the screen, and we're bouncing around these numbers that I almost threw up and then she asked me, would you be my virtual CFO? I said, wait a minute, I'm the accidental accountant. I think you need to rethink that. Long story short, I'm her accounting whisperer. Amber County translator with the firm. Anytime, anything with dollars and cents comes up, I tell them don't send it to her because she'll try to figure it out.

Peter (00:03:38) - She'll be up all night and she'll be crying in the morning. Send it to me. We'll go back and forth. Then I'll put it in a language where she can understand, and we're living happily ever after. So, to your point it does take time, but you have got to make the time to want to do it and the clients are out there screaming for it and we get stuck in. Well, if we're in the firm, everybody in the firm talks the lingo, the language. We know what we're talking about. Our clients don't of some do, the savvy ones do, but most of them don't. And the thing that I think the accounting profession has, especially like public accounting, you trust the accountant, you trust the CPA. That's half the equation. It used to be the whole equation was I knew what they were talking about or not, but anymore it's half the equation. They must be able to tell you about their business, put it in, and put the stories in.

Hannah (00:04:33) - I love that your friend was vulnerable.

Hannah (00:04:35) -  Enough to admit that they made her feel stupid, because it just makes me think like, how many people that we talk to on a daily basis that we may perceive as understanding what we are saying, that may very well not be understanding anything that we're saying, because they're just not willing to be that vulnerable with us to say, like, I just don't understand. So, I think that that speaks to how we have to be a little bit perceptive as well as accountants and like, read the room and understand that, but also not make assumptions that the person that we're talking to understands what we're trying to convey in the story that we are trying to convey. How would you say that as especially a young accountant should go into starting to learn about that? Because we were talking pre-show and just as an accountant, it is so easy to lean and like feel really confident in the technicality because obviously that is what is stress. Like, you're prepping for the CPA exam when you're in college, like you're trying to learn the technical pieces of what we do.

Hannah (00:05:35) - But the storytelling piece can feel uncomfortable if we're not used to doing that. So, how is the best way to start to go down that path? If you're a CPA or young, young accountant starting out and recognize that you need to do it, where do you start?

Peter (00:05:57) - Well, I think you start with your friends and family. I remember when I first started in the profession. I started a profession later in life, and I would come home from work, and we were married at the time, and she says, how's your day? And I would start explaining my day and she will stop, which speaking Chinese to me, put it in plain English. I'm like, I am. No, you're not. I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm the general manager of a Macy's department store. I fold sweaters, okay? That's what I do. You're talking to me about things that I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you simplify it for me? And it took me a while until I finally realized that's what it was.

Peter (00:06:36) - I speak this foreign language of accounting. So, if these younger students can, like, sit down with their friends, their family, or whatever, they don't have an accounting background and explain what they did for the day or the week or whatever, and be able to translate that into something simpler. That's a great way to start.

Joey (00:06:56) - It is. It is interesting too, because that's, you know, one of the things that I think I've struggled with the most of my career is, you know, obviously it's well, well talked about on the show. My wife is also an accountant. So, when we do have those conversations, it does lean into the very technical stuff of it, which is why I tell people, don't listen to what we're saying but, you know, coming from a family of accountants, I was very familiar with the lingo. I think that is what really helped me succeed a lot in college was, oh, I kind of know what these things are going into it but, you know, thinking about client service and thinking about all of these different things, it's probably the number one thing, Hannah, that we stress to our CFOs is, you know, we have to learn as accountants to kind of tailor our message to our audience.

Joey (00:07:41) - And I imagine you've probably learned some decent tips and strategies for figuring that out. Do you have like a go to that you like to if you're meeting somebody new to figure out what language they speak.

Peter (00:07:55) - Just to just normal conversation with them and then start throwing in, you know, some accounting conversation and see if they're if they're not in their head or they're going, not quite, quite sure and nine times out of ten they will not ask the question, what are you talking about? Because they don't want to perceive themselves to be stupid. Right? But that's the only, the only stupid question is the one that's not asked. Right. And that that assumption that that is made, I think that. It goes to assumptions and not reading the room. You mentioned about, not reading in the room. What's their body language like?  What are what are the can? You can tell when somebody disengaged the deer in the headlights look but a lot of us will just, I see that, and I just will power on through and get to the end.

Peter (00:08:49) - So, I'm done, and I get to my next piece. Well, you're not doing it. You're not doing the right service for your client, and I raised this point with the faculty at Oklahoma State anymore. These students are getting internships in their sophomore year. Definitely junior and senior year, and I, and I was asking a bunch of students, I said, so, have any of you ever worked in a restaurant or retail environment. Let's say out of 60 maybe four hands went up and I tried to write an article to get published about why the profession really needs to stress to that let's put these kids into client service environments. Like, restaurants. Like, retail. So, they're interacting with customers. So, I was lucky. I'm Greek American. I was born, raised and spent a lot of time in a restaurant and all aspects of it and dealing with customers. So, that's why it comes natural to me to have these conversations, but it doesn't come natural to others and if they start getting used to being a client service business, because that's what we do.

Peter (00:09:59) - We serve our clients, whether it's internal client or external client, and have that gravitas to be able to do that, they would only become even more successful. But the way everything is structured now, they get an internship and I think they go in and, you know, clean the copier the first week and then maybe go run for and get dinners and stuff for, you know, for everybody without really doing anything client oriented.

Joey (00:10:25) - I think it's, I think it's a great, a great point and I was I was curious I have a few questions about what's going on at Oklahoma State in terms, because I think it's really interesting that you've identified pretty early that there is a gap in terms of college. So, I have two questions about that. When you talk to your faculty members, your other faculty members at Oklahoma State? Are they picking up with what you're putting down, or are your kind of, you know, on Peter Island, kind of saying, hey, everyone, listen to me.

Peter (00:10:54) - So, when I took this role as director of the communication center, I know it was not going to get, you know, unified answer that. Everybody's into it, I just need, like, most people there were some faculty members that said, I don't believe that communication needs to be taught in an accounting program.

Hannah (00:11:12) - Respectfully, yes.

Peter (00:11:13) - That's how you feel.

Joey (00:11:15) - I would disagree with those people, but I see why they feel that way. Yes, respectfully.

Peter (00:11:19) - Yes, respectfully. They know where my position is. And, but what we did was we got bought in from a few of them, and we, and we instead of focusing on the undergraduate, we focused on the graduate program because we felt like we had more inroads there with the faculty that would support it and they did, and we made it part of the co-curricular activities that these students would do. Not everybody's going to buy into it. There's this thing called tenure. You can't make me change, and some just have really hard, hard beliefs on it, and that's fine.

Peter (00:11:55) - But if we can get a 51% that's a great start. So, a lot of the faculty have come around since I've been there. This is my fourth semester. and some probably never will, but I think it's as it becomes much more of a mainstream conversation and if we can become a mainstream conversation in their circles within the American Accounting Association. So, conferences that they attend. We've been sitting then I think I mean.

Hannah (00:12:30) - It's somewhat related to where we're going with this, but I have three kids and my oldest is 13 and a lot of days, like he'll come home and like ask me what I did and like, initially it was kind of hard for me to put into words like what I do and my kids in general. Like, they know I'm an accountant, but in terms of what I actually do, like, I am an accountant, but it's just so much bigger and broader and more than that in terms of what I get to do. So, I've tried to let them in, like on little like pieces of like the story of what I get to do for, for my clients.

Hannah (00:13:02) - And so much so, that I've started to notice my oldest take more interest in it and so, and when we're talking just about, you know, what he wants to do and what he wants to major in and things and I'm like, well, you could do accounting and he's like, yeah, I could and like it's not like he doesn't like to shut that down and I think it really comes from the fact that, like, I've had those conversations that aren't super technical about what I do get to do. So, it almost makes me wonder if we, as accountants, started rethinking the way that we communicate what we do with kids in high school if there would be a shift in making them think, oh, maybe I could do that. If we just, like, toss these like crazy accountant, you know, like words that we understand in our spaces.

Joey (00:13:54) - On hand, and not even.

Joey (00:13:56) - Could I do it. Is this something that maybe sounds more appealing than what I think about accountants?

Peter (00:14:03) - Well, with the pipeline shortage and we're not drawing as many students into the profession, and then the academic cliff that's coming up in 2025.

Peter (00:14:12) - But we won't have enough students to fill most of the colleges in Oklahoma State. We went through a strategy discussion, over a summer and part of the fall semester, I taught Survey of accounting, which is the intro course. It's a blend between managerial and financial, with lingo pulled out and not like we were going to try to take 800, 900 students and make them accountants. We turned it into more of a business accounting course and ran it that way, but we always get the stereotype of, oh God, I'm doing this accounting course and we put together the speaker series and we told him, come and tell stories and some of them could. Some of them struggle with it but the bottom line, they did do a good job of not saying, well, you know, I had to work 120 hours (about 5 days) this week or it's like, tell them about your journey, what opportunities, what places has it taken you? And it really had an impact on our students, and we ask them after, you know, part of the takeaway.

Peter (00:15:18) - We set up a survey and asked them, did this make you change your mind about accounting? And more than more than I think that we thought would. They said, yeah, it has changed my mind. I may do it as a minor. That's fine. But just getting them past that stereotype of it's hard. Yes, it is hard. If it was easy, everybody be doing it but if you're in business school don't think that you're not going to see accounting somewhere in your life.

Joey (00:15:45) - You're at least going to need to be, to your point, understanding the language and knowing the lingo and that's, you know, we talked one of my many roles here at the at the firm is helping with onboarding. Right. So, getting a new client in and one of the things that's on our checklist is for the CFO to have at least some sort of thing, whether it's a formal thing or a conversation or just did some perusing on the internet. I feel okay about it, about industry specific things.

Joey (00:16:14) - So, you can go into a meeting understanding the lingo and I think that's it reminds me of a little bit of traveling, right? When I went abroad in college, we went to Italy, and I was fluent in Spanish at the time. I don't really get to speak much anymore because I lost that muscle. It's still there somewhere. I just don't get to practice it as often as I should have. But I knew enough Spanish to understand the Italian root words and let me tell you, being overseas and having somebody there's a stereotype of Americans overseas.

Peter (00:16:45) - Yeah.

Joey (00:16:45) - And being someone who is, at least making an effort to speak the language. I had a phrasebook. I had all these things I could understand and point to and do all the things but just taking that initial step forward of saying, hey, I'm trying to speak your language because I'm in, I'm in your country. I'm in your neighborhood. That went a million times further than someone saying, well, you know, we're the most powerful country in the world.

Joey (00:17:14) - You should speak our language, which is how some of, I've seen some people act overseas and I think the same thing can happen with client services, right? If you go out there and you're meeting a new client and you've made a little bit of an effort to understand them and say, hey, I kind of know this industry KPI or I know how to use, you know, there's some phrases we had in real estate like, I know what you know, a brokerage fee is I know how these things work. that's going to go so far towards building up that rapport with the client. That's something I've loved to, I'd love to get your thoughts on and be it's, it's something that I think is hugely important as a life skill, just learning how to connect with people.

Peter (00:17:54) - I was asked to do a program at the Construction Finance Management Association's annual meeting prior to the pandemic. I know accounting, but I don’t know construction accounting, actually I never really liked it. I know it's different.

Peter (00:18:09) -  I didn't know the buzzwords or whatever, but I end up putting in about 15 to 20 hours with one of the instructional designers to put this, and it was overtaken the amount of numbers with the instructional designers to understand that at least enough of their language that can get away with it and then the same thing that year I went to, I spoke to a bunch of CFOs for, that were engineers that worked for engineering companies, and I don't speak engineering and I don't speak whatever and I the poor guy who was assigned to help me out, I must have bucked him like crazy because I wanted to know what their language was, what were their acronyms? What kind of acronyms did they use? What did was revenue still the same or was it something like this? What's the bill? And just try to absorb all of that and even to this day, if I pick up a new client. I want to know more about them,  and I'll do the background or whatever and just get enough and, also enough confidence to ask them, tell me more.

Peter (00:19:08) - Tell me what? Tell me what? I don't know that I need to know.

Joey (00:19:12) - Yeah, tell me what if. So, I did my research here. I found these 15 things that might be important to you. They're kind of important to me. But what's important to you? What are these? 15. What are the five that are important to you? That's a huge conversation, right? You know. Yeah. Go a long way. Hannah, what's the trick you like to use?

Peter (00:19:29) - Yes.

Hannah (00:19:29) - So, obviously there's a lot of research. Unfortunately, onboarding a new client, if it's if it's an industry I'm not familiar with but even beyond like industry knowledge. Joey, you know this about me. I'm going to go into a relationship and I'm going in with a client, an onboarding. I'm going to immediately start trying to find a connection with them some way, somehow, whether it's through a story that might connect with them because I've looked them up on LinkedIn and I know a thing or two about the things that they like or whatever it might be, or it's remembering something from our first conversation that I bring back up in the next, that they might have three kids and they're involved in baseball or, you know, whatever that is.

Hannah (00:20:07) - I'm going to ask about that the next time. So, for me personally, it is truly about the connection. Whenever I'm working with, like in any space within client service and I think that is what is the building block of trust for me initially, especially if I can get in there and strike quick and really start to develop that in a genuine way and then I think that honestly, in a way buys me some time to start learning more about their industry, to asking, ask more questions, to be able to pull back the curtain even more. and it gets. I am talking a bit more whenever they feel more comfortable with me in that space it is, I think it's, I think it's my superpower of being honest because I really, really lean on that a lot in client relationships.

Peter (00:20:59) - You know what I've been doing over the years? Is playing around with the disc model, the disc personality assessment. Oh yeah, and what I learned is those in the top left quadrant, the dominant ones, the CFOs, the CEOs who, nothing personal, just business.

Peter (00:21:19) - I'm the smartest guy. I'm just asking differently.

Hannah (00:21:22) - You have to read that for sure.

Peter (00:21:23) - They're not. They're not there for chit chat. Nope. They're. Yeah, you have to be able to read that and also, they like making decisions. So, if I send them a proposal and only provide one option. Well, I've made their decision and they're going to throw that piece of paper in the trash can. If I give them three options. Pick one or the other, I don't. I don't care if you can pick, they're more likely to read through it and do it and maybe say, okay, let's do this one because now they've made the decision versus, we get some, you know, clients who are in the top right, the, the I quadrant, the influencer, they've got the gift of gab. Sometimes they don't know where to put a period or a comma or a semicolon or whatever. It's just one long run on sentence and then how do you deal with them? And then, you know, you've got the accountants who are usually seen as the very task oriented, the very, you know, they can work on their own.

Peter (00:22:22) - They don't like small talk. Give me the facts, and the eyes over here try to interact with them and they're going but I like a story. Tell me a story, I, and friction occurs. and then you get the support of that, you know, are people oriented but, the very reserved. So, I tried to figure it out and they're more conflict avoidant and they don't make decisions very well. So, when I meet somebody, whether it's like this or in person, I try to go through my model real-quick, okay, I think that this person is this, so what? And I'll try to change my conversation to meet theirs.

Hannah (00:22:59) - We do in fact know.

Peter (00:23:03) - Oh, jeez. 90.

Joey (00:23:07) - I have to look mine up.

Peter (00:23:09) - Hold on. Let's see. I'm an idiot. I think you are. You've got AI tendencies.

Hannah (00:23:16) - Yes. But I lean closer to the D.

Peter (00:23:18) - So, you're stronger in the AI versus the D. But you're. But you're. But you lean closer to the day.

Peter (00:23:26) - Yeah, I know somebody just exactly like that and I'm, I'm a hard I I'm, you know, I'm a real hard I so I, I, sometimes I get frustrated with the IDs just because they're living in their D world, and it's very blunt, straight to the point. This is what's going on, and they're not playing well and the AI world and I just kind of get frustrated. I think Joey's either a C or an S he's looking at must be what.

Hannah (00:23:57) - You are because. Because when we did this exercise, we all divided into quadrants in the room. So, of course I was observant in terms of like, who is in my quadrant, who is in the D's, because that's who I was like, leading towards and Joey, I don't remember you being in either one of those quadrants. Do you remember? What? What part of the room?

Joey (00:24:16) - No. I'm definitely. I'm definitely not a D.

Hannah (00:24:18) - Could I say I could go around the.

Joey (00:24:19) - That's at inhale.

Joey (00:24:21) - Now, I think I think Peter's probably right. I'm, I'm more of a I'm less of a C because I don't here's the problem, I'm not really hard in any of them. I'm kind of more in the middle where I kind of flex around as I need to because I love a good story, but I also have that need to be like very detail oriented, very like, kind of fact based in the sense that, like, I've got to understand where I sit and the one that I'm not very strong, I'm not a very dominant personality, I tend to kind of float around to the, to where I need to be and not, assert my personality in the way that some of the more dominant personalities do. I'm going to keep searching for this.

Hannah (00:25:05) - But I think this is so valuable, just as accountants and especially.

Joey (00:25:08) - Now, now I got it to know

Hannah (00:25:09) - These and to be able to recognize them because like you said, Peter, like it will help you read the room and help you be able to flex into whomever you're talking to.

Hannah (00:25:20) - And especially for us in a virtual environment, one thing, that we really stress is always having your camera on like, we prefer that in in meetings with each other. We prefer it in meetings with our clients and I love that because I'm always reading body language. I'm always paying attention to, like if somebody's eyes have glazed over and I need to, like, back up and be like, whoa, are we on the same page? You know, like it just really helps with that. Like I said, because we're in a virtual environment, obviously it's a little bit easier whenever you're in person with somebody to pick up on those things but I think that speaks to especially with us moving into such a virtual environment, being able to really sharpen that skill and get really good at that, going forward. So, that said, do you feel like there's any other soft skills young accountants should focus on now in their career?

Peter (00:26:18) - Oh, there's a ton of them.

Peter (00:26:20) - But the one thing that they need to do. You know what the worst body language virtually is?

Joey (00:26:29) - There it is.

Peter (00:26:30) - I just turned off my camera for those who are listening, I just turned off my camera. This is the worst body language ever because what are you thinking right now? You're thinking I'm either multitasking or I'm not even listening to you or anything. Where? Here. Clearly, you know that they're engaged to some to some degree and there was an article that came out a couple of years ago that CFOs around the country were asked about having people having their camera on what's going through your head and going, what's going through their head, the multitasking. They might be fully engaged, but there's no evidence of it and I think there's some statistic, like 82% of CFOs of CEOs said I probably won't last here with their camera not on. So, when you're doing anything virtually. Turn your camera on especially and I do a lot. I've done a number of stuffs.

Peter (00:27:26) - Deliver CPE to, to a firm to a company, to an association and everybody's got the cameras off, and it also makes the, the, the person who's delivering the information have to work ten times harder.

Hannah (00:27:39) - It does it for me. When somebody takes their camera off, not only am I thinking they're multitasking, but I'm also creating a narrative in my head about how they might be responding to whatever information is that I'm delivered and none of those narratives are usually positive to what I'm delivering. So, it helps so much just to be able to know and not, like, be sweating by the end of the call, because I've already created some false narrative about how somebody might be reacting to what I'm saying.

Peter (00:28:05) - Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I had to laugh because I created those same stories in my head too. Oh, look at that Joey if you find it.

Joey (00:28:19) - I found it, I found it. I'm a CSS.

Peter (00:28:22) - Okay. Yeah.

Peter (00:28:24) - Yeah.

Joey (00:28:25) - You know.

Peter (00:28:26) - So that's it. That's interesting. You're both task oriented and people oriented.

Joey (00:28:33) - But I think that that does indicate. So, Hannah and I have worked pretty closely together for almost our entire time at the, at the firm together because we started very close to each other but I always have kind of felt that our skill sets are complementary because, you know, there's what she brings to the table is the exact opposite of what I bring to the table, which I found makes for a really a it makes for a good a co-hosting opportunity but B just when you're thinking about building teams and stuff like that, like you kind of want I use I use sports a lot as analogy. That's one of my goes for, for explaining things like you don't want on a basketball team, the same five guys running the same place. Like, no, you need five different people running five different, you know, five different roles on the team. Otherwise, you know, two dominant personalities are going to fight for the ball at the end.

Joey (00:29:22) - And you're not going to get the shot off. So, that's I'm glad that we are, at least as a firm, investing a lot in these types of things, because it helps with team building, and all of the things you need to do to make your, you know, working, you know, your experience at work so much better.

Peter (00:29:39) - The one thing that I originally get certified in this through Wiley, and they make a huge point of going. We don't pigeonhole people in doing this, because actually we all have all four of those characteristics within us. One just happens to be stronger than the other, but we flex and move through these things, and we don't try to say, okay, we're going to put a team together, we're going to have a D and I and S and a C, right? No, it's who's in the team and let's have a better understanding of what they're. This personality style is and look for the potential conflict that can occur and be able to address it sooner than later.

Peter (00:30:22) - And actually, we did this with, With the cohort last year prior to getting certified, and we were able to assess because I was competent, I wasn't certified, but I was confident in it where some potential uproar could occur and, that really helped out a lot because when I first got there, the cohort, they had a lot of challenges in front of them, but we they hadn't done a dis profile. They did the strengths analysis, string finders, and Korn Ferry competencies but they didn't understand the personality or the communication style. So, they, you know, things kind of got a little bit out of control and it can happen almost in any in any organization because, you know, you would think that in a CPA firm that everybody would be like a D or C and just maybe the administrative staff on the other side.

Hannah (00:31:20) - But how we deliver information to our clients too, because how I deliver client, how I deliver a story of a financial statement to a client that leans more into the D is going to be very different than how I deliver the information, who might be more in the C quadrant.

Hannah (00:31:41) - And being able to pick up on that, I think is incredibly valuable and I think so many times, like, especially probably I know I probably did this earlier in my career is I just kind of wrote this stuff off as like, oh, that's woo, woo. Like, that's too many feelings. Like, I'm not trying to like, learn more about that. Like, I totally dismiss this stuff that now I'm like, if I had spent more time in this, I probably could have like picked up on this stuff much sooner and earlier than I actually did and been really intentional about it. So, that way I could get like fine tune that, that skill. So, I've found like it to work in my favor to be able to pick up on these things whenever I'm communicating to a client, especially whenever I'm trying to figure out, because a lot of the storytelling that we do is we try to make sure that what the numbers are telling us is also what the owners or whoever's in the room are feeling in the business and seeing if those actually marry up in some way.

Hannah (00:32:38) - And if I'm delivering that in just a way that like, just goes right over their head, or it's way too technical or whatever it is, then I'm not. I'm going to miss out on that opportunity to figure out if we're on the same page.

Peter (00:32:58) - Right. And just maybe think of something because you asked what other soft skill skills or like, call them. Power skills that students should. Should be thinking about. They have a choice every morning when they get out of bed. What's my attitude going to be for today and if your attitude is going to be grumpy and not play well with the team and not play well in the sandbox, whatever, I would suggest you just stay in bed. Until and till you can get a positive attitude to come in and be that person that the team relies on. We all have bad days. That's fine. We all have bad days but the more that we can stay. What's the name of that group? Conscious leadership. They've got a great video out there on YouTube about being above or below the line.

Peter (00:33:47) - And what does it mean to be above or below the line? And the more that we can play above that line and be curious and be asking questions and being engaged versus defensive, and it's all about me and, you know, the dark side, we get more out of our day, we get more out of our career but every morning they have that opportunity to make that choice. What Troy and I and through this past term, I would ask this when I see the master's students come by and say you above or below the line tonight, be honest with me. Well, today's not a good day. Well, what are you going to do to get above that line without going home yet? Well, I guess, I have to think about that a little bit harder or. Yeah.

Joey (00:34:29) - Well, I love that too, because it's, you know, we talk a lot and, you know, I was just got done with the coaching call with one of, one of my, our coworkers here.

Joey (00:34:37) - And I was kind of focusing on client is having a difficult challenge. I said, look, there's nine things you can do to solve this problem, but only two of them are within our control. So, let's focus on those two, because those are the ones that are guaranteed. We can control how we respond to this situation. And I like that same thought process with students, right. With attitude, because that is something that how we choose to tackle the day is 100% within our control. You can always make the choice of, you know, I just don't have it today and I'll tell you, there's plenty of days where I just like, you know, I just don't have it today but other days, maybe I'm on the cusp and I'm like, you know, I could have it today. I'm going to go do this so I can bring my A-game to where I need to go, or I can do this, or I can do that I like that you're framing that up as we have a decision that we can make every day.

Hannah (00:35:29) - All the time.

Peter (00:35:30) - I didn't realize you were an improviser, Joey.

Joey (00:35:33) - A little bit. I was going to ask you, you mentioned business. You, you mentioned business improv in in our thing in our, our little pre-show notes. And I was like, I have never heard of that. I would like to learn more.

Peter (00:35:45) - Well, its improviser does a couple of things. One, we focus on the things that we can control and not other things we can't control. So, a week ago today, there was a threat of major tornadoes here in Oklahoma.

Joey (00:36:03) - And I recall with my friends in Kansas, that was that was a storm.

Peter (00:36:07) - That was that was that was a storm that was going to hit later in the day into the evening and everybody was focused on what might happen later that day versus staying present and in the moment and just, you know, going, it's not happening now. As we get closer, maybe I'll think about it, but I needed to stay present and accounted for.

Peter (00:36:27) - And, and most people don't do that. They tend to focus on the things they have no control over with. And the other thing that improvisers do is they improvise the scene that they're in, not the one they want to be in and I've had I've recently had to relive that one for a bit as I kept trying to be in the scene that I wasn't in, versus improvising the scene that I am and being it's all about being present. It's all about listening. and if you, if you want a copy of my, my business improv book, similar addresses and I will mail them to each one, a copy of it.

Joey (00:37:05) - No, I, I would love that. And I know that's when I think about improv because I, I did kind of grow up, as a bit lovingly call myself a theater nerd, spend a lot of time in the theater, and in high school I was more on the technical side but, you know, we would do the improv games and stuff like that to get warmed up.

Joey (00:37:21) - And it is great because its improv is all about teamwork. Improv is all about, do I see where my partner wants to go with this? Right? And can I set my partner up in the scene to get us where we want to go? And when you think about consulting, that's what consulting is, right? I need to be 100% present with my client and understand all of the different things that are going through their head, like, where do they want to take this scene? How much do I know about this person so that I can go where we're going? And if you if you it's a skill just like anything else and it's more of a, I would say more of an art than a science and I'm not I'm not super great at it, but I love that construct.

Hannah (00:38:02) - Speaking of personality, things like I love the acronym. Well, it's a favorite of mine. I'm an Enneagram seven. As an Enneagram seven, I tend to live, try to live more in the future.

Hannah (00:38:13) - So, I have to be really intentional about living in the present space like, my brain is always trying to think about the next thing, like, I'm trying to move forward be prepared for that and I mean, obviously there's good things about that but living in the present and improving my space around me in the current state that I am in is something that I have to be super intentional about. So, I'm excited that you have a book about that, because I can recognize that, like I need to work on that actively because it is something that, like I said, I have to make a choice every single day to focus on, on where I'm at right now and, and on the things that I can control right now, because there's plenty beyond my control.

Peter (00:38:58) - Well, the one thing that people get improv wrong about is they think we just make stuff up all the time. We're just making stuff up. We just make stuff up. That's untrue. Drew Carey and whose line is it, anyway? That's not true.

Peter (00:39:12) - Everything's made up. The points don't count. That's not true.

Joey (00:39:16) - One of my favorite shows. I love that you just shouted that out.

Peter (00:39:19) - I do like that show. I do watch it every now and then but to the point is an improviser, let's say, you know, get ready for a meeting or they're doing a presentation, they will overprepare. Overprepare to the point that when they're about to walk in the room, that metaphorically will walk up that script and throw it away and by doing so they're prepared and then they can improvise the room when the conversation goes in different directions, and it doesn't throw them off but the one thing in the book that I researched and found out to be true is you've heard of Martin Luther King and the, I have the dream speech. Well, that speech was actually called Normalcy Never Again, and he improvised the last third of the speech when he did the I had the dream because they had pulled it out the night before. They said they've been using it too much.

Peter (00:40:15) - And Doctor King was up there delivering this speech and, if you could get you can see it. He's reading, you know, like from the podium and at some point, about two thirds of the way and he pauses for a second and the woman who was his gospel singer before him, Mahalia Jackson, said, tell him about your dream, Martin. Now they say there's some people on stage who heard him, her say that, and he pushed the speech away. I never looked down again and did the I have the dream speech. So, even though it was pulled the night before, he had it in his head and what he was. There was a retired judge, Patricia Blackman in Cleveland who's done the I have the Dream speech and knew about these stories, and she asked me, "Have you ever been to a black church before?" No, but I've always wanted to go. The preacher wants the congregation to interact with them.

Peter (00:41:15) - They want the hallelujahs, the claps and all of that. That's part of the conversation. He wasn't getting that that day in D.C and he read the room.

Hannah (00:41:26) - I'm getting chills just sitting here listening to that. That's incredible.

Peter (00:41:30) - I get chills every time I tell that story.

Joey (00:41:36) - Well, I think there's a very important.

Joey (00:41:38) - Point that you made there because sometimes people think improving it and winging it are two different things. One of those things involves an incredible amount of preparation. The other one does not, and I'm the type of person I can't, I mean, I'm terrified of public speaking. So, I could never do that but B when I do have to get up and speak in public, it is over prepared over prepare because I got to be ready for anything that could come. I got to be prepared to pivot. I got to be prepared to go here or there or there or there and yeah, there's no substitute for preparation.

Peter (00:42:13) - Right.

Peter (00:42:14) - Right. And.

Joey (00:42:16) - The point where you, can you deliver the, you know, if you're great at it. The world's arguably one of the world's greatest speeches because you're so into what you're saying that you just you just know it.

Peter (00:42:26) - Like, and you know, the reaction that you want from the audience.

Hannah (00:42:28) - Well. Speaking of reaction.

Hannah (00:42:30) - There you go. Exactly. It'll hit you then. Sorry, I think we maybe we. I'll call.

Peter (00:42:34) - I'll call you at three in the morning.

Hannah (00:42:35) - But just like that story, just, like, gave me goosebumps sitting here like that is what storytelling is like. It evokes like, a physical, like emotion within us and I think we miss that so often whenever we are talking to our clients and I think, Peter, you said this like our clients are not making decisions all the time based on data like they're making it on emotion and so, like, if we can make sure that the emotion aligns with the data, and tells the story that we need it to tell and get our point across, then how valuable are we to that client and so sticky.

Peter (00:43:15) - Here's the challenge. So, I'm a member of the National Speakers Association, and this one-woman name is Patricia Fripp. She's a wonderful storyteller. She's brilliant, a wonderful storyteller, and I'm working on a presentation. I keep forgetting this quote. So, I asked my colleague about it, and what she says about storytelling is the story must be true, it doesn't have to be accurate. Now that makes every CPA in their seat squirm and it's, and it's. It's just embellishing a little bit that that it would sound like it would be true, but it's more emotional than the way that you were going to say that, because that's what we're trying to get that tug on the heart, tug on that emotion. And a lot of times when we're trying to tell a story, it's factual. It's accurate. Versus how can I embellish this just a little bit to make it sound realistic, but have a greater effect on the audience? Yeah, and that is I've had I've had people come up to me after I say that and man, they're just fired up.

Peter (00:44:30) - You're lying to them; I know and your thought process. I'm lying to it. But what's the ultimate goal for this story? To get them to have some decision-making opportunities in there and I'm trying to help them give that. So, maybe they will run with it and tell somebody else something happens but a lot of times they state facts and figures.

Hannah (00:44:54) - True life stories that are made into Hollywood movies are dramatized, you know, in terms of to, to embellish that, to like, tell the story but also make it invoke those emotions that way. People want to come, come watch the movie and, and you know, like it's all psychological at the end of the day.

Peter (00:45:11) - Right. Yeah.

Peter (00:45:16) - Yeah. How were we? I will be given this information that will have an impact on somebody and numbers. Numbers have an impact. Especially if I pay $1 million in taxes. That has an impact. but why do I have to pay $1 million? I mean, my, my friend who I'm the accounting whisper for.

Peter (00:45:37) - She gets mad because she's got to pay taxes, I said, then stop driving new clients and stop charging as much as you do. Just bring it down to snow, I said. But then. So, she finally got it, and she goes, I've had. I've hired some people. I just realized their tax deductible. I don't have to pay as much tax and say it took three years. Good.

Joey (00:46:03) - Well, Peter, we could we.

Joey (00:46:04) - Could obviously, like you got a bunch of folks who on the RACI chart love to tell a story so we could keep this going forever but I wanted to end in a couple of different places. You've called yourself in the past The Accidental Accountant, which tells me you've got some passions in this world that maybe aren't necessarily related to accounting and storytelling and I'd like our audience to learn a little bit more about Peter, The Accidental Accountant, and what you do when you're not thinking about accounting work.

Peter (00:46:33) - Oh, I think about accounting work all the time.

Peter (00:46:37) - Actually, The Accidental Account, was told me I was getting my first review at Victoria's Secret catalog and before my cheeks hit the seat, my boss said, how in the hell did you ever become a CPA, CPA? Can get down this far. I can only get you this far. You're an accidental accountant. I said thank you. That's the nicest thing you've said to me all year and I'm going to trademark it name that business. So, its trademark name, my business. But what? I got back to her and said, "but you know something? There's a stereotype out there about us in the accounting department, and we're in the information gathering business, so, I'm not networking my way around the building. So, they look at me as Pete, not the guy from accounting, because if I'm the guy from accounting, they think I'm here just to tell them no. And she never got it. So, kind of how I got the name. What do I do outside of this.

Peter (00:47:32) - I love to write; I love to ride my bike. It's, it's and I've named my bike therapy.

Joey (00:47:40) - Okay.

Peter (00:47:41) - So, I, you know, now it's finally getting to biking season for say and.

Hannah (00:47:49) - But tornadoes take you away.

Peter (00:47:49) - Because a wind does come sweeping off the plains all the time. yeah. The tornadoes. Yeah. That too. So, my son lives in Columbus, Ohio. I'm here in Stillwater, so I don't get to see him as much. So, I tried every opportunity I could to get back and to get back and see him. I do read some, but not normally during the term because I'm reading other stuff. I've written three books. I don't know how somebody would have told me 20 years ago. I've written three books. I didn't tell them they're drunk or something like this. That's not. That's not my thing, but it turned out to be. I keep myself busy with just different stuff. I try to start a; I've had a podcast for seven years.

Peter (00:48:32) - I had to stop it. When I took this job, I tried to start a bourbon tasting podcast because I am from Kentucky and Kentucky's bourbon country.

Joey (00:48:40) - Now you're not, and you're speaking Producer Rob's language. We're going to have to talk about that after the show.

Peter (00:48:45) - Yeah, I and I haven't had a I haven't had a good chance of getting it off the ground yet. but yeah, I do have a little bit of sampling of some Bourbons popping out right now. They're calling me early. Stop. It's not.

Joey (00:49:01) - We had a stay at Kansas State University, which is very much like Oklahoma State University. All our, our brothers from the from a little further south. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

Peter (00:49:11) - It's right. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning. Perfect. Yeah. So that's kind of where I come from, and I've done I've done standup comedy in my past, and I still challenge myself to, Yeah, I still, I still write.

Peter (00:49:25) - I just wrote a joke, recently when I was in the dentist office, and they. I was getting a root canal and I saw black smoke coming out of my mouth, like, what the heck? Then a few minutes later, white smoke came out and said, oh my God, we've elected a pope.

Hannah (00:49:39) - Oh that's great, I love that.

Peter (00:49:46) - And to turn it into a Kentucky thing. Because that's why I went to the University of Kentucky. We just hired a new coach, and his name is Pope.

Hannah (00:49:53) - That's exactly right.

Peter (00:49:55) - So.

Hannah (00:49:55) - Well, thank you so much for coming to the show with us. If our listeners want to connect with you outside of the show, what is the best way for them to do that?

Hannah (00:50:05) - Put your Venmo handle in the show notes that.

Hannah (00:50:08) - Said.

Peter (00:50:08) - Send me $100. No.

Peter (00:50:12) - Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Peter (00:50:15) - They can find me at www.PeterMargaritas, and it's MARGARITAS. It's not the cocktail we pronounce like that, but that's spelled more like hepatitis, gingivitis, and laryngitis.

Hannah (00:50:26) - Thank you so much for coming in here again.

Hannah (00:50:28) - I can't wait to read your book and I can't wait for our listeners to hear this episode.

Outro (00:50:33) - If you're a Young CPA looking to develop in their careers, we're always looking for great people. Visit our website for remote work opportunities with Summit Virtual CFO or find all our open positions at Anders CPAs and advisors.