Rethink Your Sales Approach with Diane Helbig

Intro (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Virtual CPA Success Show for Creative Agencies, the go to resource for agency owners looking to scale their business. Join us every week to stay ahead of the curve and position your agency for future success.

Jamie (00:00:15) - Hello everybody. Welcome to today's episode. I'm really excited for today's episode and today's guest because we are going to talk sales again. It's been a couple months. I feel like we've talked sales. So we're bringing an awesome salesperson in here, Diane Helbig. She's with Helbig Enterprises and she really understands sales and has a better way for using sales within your company. So, Diane, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your experience?

Diane (00:00:37) - Thanks. I'm thrilled to be here with you guys. So, I am a business advisor to small business owners, helping them get over challenges oftentimes with sales. I train people in all sorts of businesses around soft skills, customer service, leadership, that sort of thing. I'm the author of a couple of books, two of them about sales, podcast, host, speaker, you know, the whole nine yards.

Diane(00:01:05) - I'm doing it.

Jamie (00:01:08) - Awesome. So similar to you. We have another author and podcast host on here as well. So, of course we're joined by Jody Grunden once again. So welcome to the episode Jody.

Jody (00:01:17) - Yeah thanks. Thanks, Jamie. My favorite topic. So, sales my favorite topic. So, I'm excited to dig in on this one for sure. All right, I'll say to you, Jamie, you're my favorite topic outside of the podcast.

Jamie (00:01:28) - So that's just the pre-show in the after show, and we talk about all the fun stuff. So, but sales is definitely fun as well. So I guess let's just start at the beginning, you know, let's start at first piece of advice that you give a client or what's the what's the direction that you're trying to get your customers when you're talking about sales with them.

Diane (00:01:47) - Well, the first thing I say to them is stop selling. Because sales doesn't work. So yeah, you know, we just.

Jody (00:01:56) - How does that go over?

Diane (00:01:58) - They say to me.

Diane (00:02:00) - Wait, what? How can you? And I say, I'm talking about sales in the traditional sense of the word, because for so many reasons, one, people are engaging in behaviors that don't work to most small business owners. And I find even sales people don't like it. It makes them uncomfortable. They don't like the feeling of it. They feel like they have to engage in ways of behaving that aren't natural. So, they either don't do it at all or they do it really poorly. So. Why or you know, this is where I end up scratching my head and saying, okay, if it's not working, you don't like it. Why are we doing it this way? Right. So, it's a mindset shift. Move away from this whole persuading, convincing, cajoling. You know, being salesy and slick and all the nonsense, and let's incorporate a whole different way of doing it that feels better, is more natural, comfortable, and people will do.

Jody (00:03:04) - I love that comment because when I.

Jody (00:03:07) - Before counting. As a lot of people know, I used to sell knives, so I was a knife sales person. Wait, was it? Yeah. Cutco. Yeah, three years of it. If I sold it for three years, I actually ran an office teach people how to sell it. And that would what I would consider is the traditional way of selling back then. And I think that's what you're talking about. People, you know, are, you know, that doesn't work anymore. You know, that's not that's not the way to sell. When we started summit, I was like, I'm going to do just the opposite. I'm going to go exactly what I think works well with clients and what people want to hear and give them choices, help them make decisions versus try to sell or have all these different closing. You know, there's like 100 clothes. If you listen to Zig Ziglar, you get like 100 different clothes you can make on clients and really do they work? Maybe they do, I don't know, I don't use them anymore.

Jody (00:04:02) - But I'd love to hear your take on that because I had I have the exact same exact same feeling. Exact same position.

Diane (00:04:10) - Yeah. My brother used to sell Cutco knives too, so I know exactly what you're talking about. They're great knives. They are great knives. Right. So, here's the problem. Back in the day before the internet, um, you could sell like that. I think people still didn't really like it, but consumers didn't have a choice because they had no way of gathering the information that you had other than for you to walk in their door or call them up on the phone. Right now we have the internet. Everybody knows everything, or they have easy access to information. So they're doing the research. And what I tell people is people are going to you can't sell anything to anybody. People will buy from you when they need what you have to sell, and they like and trust you. Period. It's timing. There's so many parts to it. So, if we stop doing this weird, you know, if I could get it for you and yellow today, would you buy it? You know, today? Could we sign a deal? If we can get away from all of that, what we're really doing is helping people problem solve because we're really understanding what their problem is.

Diane (00:05:21) - And if our product or service can help them, we've listened to them. Then we're just showing that we're walking down the same road together. Right. Objections go away. It makes sense. Easy. That's it.

Jody (00:05:37) - Yeah.

Jamie (00:05:38) - I could say from my point of view, from someone that isn't very salesy, you know. So, when I, when I first started it at summit, you know, one of my first things, because I was working at an airline prior to coming to summit, so I had free flights. So, Jody was going to take advantage of that. So, he took me to a couple of events and he's like, oh, Jamie, you should come to Seattle and come to this event. And I was thinking, oh boy. Don't cost anything, right? I've only been here for two months and I'm going to be trying to sell our product. And Jody took the pressure off me from day one. He's like, you're not you're not selling the product. All you're doing is creating connections and really just talking to people.

Jamie (00:06:11) - And that's it just made me, as someone that was never really comfortable with sales and maybe completely comfortable on day one and had a great time, and I've been to probably 20 events since then because, you know, they always talk about in companies you want everybody selling, but at the same time you don't want everybody selling, right? Like if your thing is, is that you're just building those relationships and developing those relationships and really understanding the product so that when they need the product, they know where to go. And that was the whole model. The first couple times I went to these events with Jody is like, I don't need you to do one close. I don't need you to even talk about a sale. All I want you to do is make sure that everybody in that room understands what we offer. And that's a lot easier for me to do versus trying to sell people.

Diane (00:06:50) - It's easier for everybody to do, right? This is why I say, you know, it's so much more natural.

Diane (00:06:57) - Besides the fact that there's people you don't want to work with, but you don't know that if all you're doing is going after the sale, right? You find out about that later after you've married them, and they're your client, and you hate them and they hate you. And now we have to get divorced, right? So if we can back that up and not. Do it that way and just engage. Have conversations. Learn. If the whole process is better and we have better, longer lasting clients than we did. Before we use this method.

Jody (00:07:42) - And I tell people a lot because we go to a lot of different events, and the events like Jamie is mentioning is and I learned from the very beginning is that the idea is not to sell. The idea is to educate. So, education is is the key there. And so it's not educating on necessarily what you're selling. And what I mean by that is we don't talk about virtual CFO services and what we do on those. We don't sales, we don't talk about any of that.

Jody (00:08:09) - We talk about what's important to the client. So, like if we're going to a creative agency event, we're going to be talking about profit margins. You know what the industry's showing on increases in revenue. What you know, where you know, where are people leaking profit. You know what kind of cash position you need to have. You know, so we're talking about things that is really important to them because really our service isn't important to them as the result of our service. Right. And so we're trying to teach those folks how to actually do it. And the biggest high five you can ever get is if you educate somebody enough or they don't need you. That's pretty cool. And that's probably one of the biggest compliments that we've ever gotten from clients is that and they're not clients, they're just friends. Right. You know, it's it's pretty common that if I go to New York City, I guarantee I could get a meal anytime I want it for free because all the people like because I get that all the time.

Jody (00:09:02) - When you're in New York City, when you're in Boston, hit me up. I owe you big, you know, and, you know, it's like, well, that that that's a huge compliment. I'll never make a dime on that person. I don't really care. And the thing is, is because I know that the more we educate people, I know that there's going to be 75% of those folks are going to try it, and then they're going to realize, hey, that's just not their cup of tea. You know, that's not their superpower, you know? And then that's when those folks will reach out to us and we'll help them. The worst thing we could do is sell it our service to the to the first person I mentioned, the, the person that can do it themselves. And then it's doing really well with it because that would probably be your worst client ever.

Diane (00:09:41) - Absolutely. But you know what they're gonna refer you. I would imagine you get referrals for them to all the time because they know people who don't either can't do it themselves or don't want to do it themselves.

Diane (00:09:52) - Right.

Jody (00:09:53) - That's exactly.

Diane (00:09:54) - Right. You're a trusted resource. They know they they've got it. They've figured it out. Yeah, that it's huge.

Jody (00:10:01) - And that's really what thought leadership is about, right? You're creating thought leadership. People go to you for that resource knowing that, hey, you're the bundle of knowledge that they need to tap into every once in a while, whether they hire you or they just reach out to you with a question.

Diane (00:10:15) - Yeah, yeah, it's really true. I do think that before you educate, you have to learn. So, I think, you know, salespeople don't learn enough about what's going on with a prospect in order to really know whether they can really help them. And b, what that would look like and how to have that conversation in a way that ties the two together. So, that is a big part that I think is missing.

Jamie (00:10:44) - So question I want to ask on this is so a lot of times when I talk with agencies and I talk with clients, we talk about hiring that salesperson or that business development person.

Jamie (00:10:53) - And the question comes up, do I hire someone who's really good and understands our product and teach them to sell? Or do I hire a really good salesperson and then teach them about our product? So, I'm curious, what's your what's your thoughts on that? Ah.

Diane (00:11:06) - I'm going to say it depends on your definition of really good at sales. So because if someone's really good at sales in the old fashioned sense, I don't think you want to hire them because I think they're going to damage your reputation as an organization. Right? You're going to spend a lot of money. You're not you're not going to be happy. They're not going to be happy. And the people who you're dealing with are not going to be happy. So, I would rather that you take someone who really understands your value proposition, the result of what you do. They don't even have to understand how you do it. They just really have to understand what. Problem you solve. They can understand a little bit about the how. They don't even have to be in the weeds.

Diane (00:11:49) - But they're really good people. People, right? They're curious. They're curious minded. They're giving their and they're genuinely curious. So, they're not just asking the questions so that they can tick off the list and then pitch. They really are curious and they understand this can take time. You know, this takes research. It takes all sorts of things. But it's that personal ability thing that is what people buy.

Jamie (00:12:22) - And I'm curious to you on this question, Jody. So like, I know we recently hired or brought in someone that's, that's doing our sales, and I think that's the number one thing she's really good at is she's been asking all the leaders. Asking people is, okay, what do we bring to the organizations? What are we looking for mean? Jodi, would you agree? That's kind of what I know. For a while, it was hard for you to hire a salesperson and think this is probably wise. It's kind of what made you sign off on on Christy.

Jody (00:12:45) - Yeah, yeah.

Jody (00:12:45) - Because, you know, all the different hats that I've worn in the company from leading, you know, the production side to, you know, marketing to you name it, you know, the the hat that was the hardest for me was the sales side because the sales side is really the, the key to everything else working. You know, you know, you got to have clients coming in the door. So clients got to come in the door and they've got to come in with the right expectation. And that's really important to set. Otherwise, everything else will be you're setting everybody else up for failure. Otherwise you know, the if you're if you're saying our onboarding is going to take two weeks and it takes two months, and we're high fiving because we did a good job, but the client's expectations are different that that's that's setting us up for a disappointed client, no matter what the true experience should have been, you know, to begin with. And so I think that's the part of the sales process that was super hard for me to understand and know, because I did talk to a lot of people.

Jody (00:13:37) - And do we hire a salesperson to be just hire within and promote one of our CFOs to a salesperson? You know, what? What do we do? And it wasn't until I ran across the person that we have in that position right now, Christy, she's doing a great job. And and she has a lot of background in sales, but not just in sales, but in management, company management of other companies and, you know, and some bigger companies and and her big superpower really is her follow through, you know, her ability to, you know, understand everything and just follow through, which was probably if I'm going to if I want to call my own weaknesses, probably one of my weaknesses was the follow through part. And the fact that she's constantly asking questions, trying to learn what we do. She wants to be at the events that we're talking at, knowing that she's not going to speak, but just kind of hearing what we have to say. And I think that's the important, the important thing that she brings to the table is that she knows that she doesn't know everything, but she's willing to learn and willing to understand.

Jody (00:14:36) - And if I were to ask her today in a, in a one of her quarterly reviews, you know, hey, what would you ideally like to be? I guarantee you, she'd say, I want to be a thought leader like you. I want to be able to get up there and talk and and that's what, you know, that's what we really what really kind of sold me on the fact that, you know, hey, I think we got the right person for that. Now. Time will tell. Obviously, you know, as that person matures to the organization, but so far she's doing a really great job. And I think I can see that on the on the onboarding side, when clients come aboard, I think they are their expectations are in line to where they need to be.

Diane (00:15:10) - That's really great. It's rare, but it sounds like she comes to that naturally, which is great, right?

Jody (00:15:19) - Very natural. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think it's just really hard to find.

Jamie (00:15:25) - I think it is tough to teach people curiosity in my opinion. Right. Like, think you either you meet people that are curious or you don't and think the other way to teach. The only one way I've ever found to teach curiosity is to put someone in a situation or something they really love doing right. When there's something you love doing, the people are naturally going to ask questions where it's like, if you if you through someone that isn't naturally curious into like a car mechanics office and like they've never driven, they don't care about cars. It's not their thing. They're not going to ask questions where a natural, curious person is just going to be like, huh, I wonder how that works, or how that's work. That's like, that's the only way really to, in my opinion, to teach someone to be curious is to put them in an area they're passionate about.

Diane (00:16:00) - I think you're probably right about that. One of the things that I say is our mantra has to be, I don't know.

Diane (00:16:07) - Because what we do is we go into the situation believing that we know how our solution is going to help them. And we could be right, but that limits what we learn. So, if we go into every situation with, I don't know, then we're always I don't think it really necessarily matters where we go. We're always seeking to understand. We're always seeking information because we know there's the good possibility. We don't know a lot of things that we need to understand.

Jody (00:16:39) - I think you're right on that, and I know you're right on that. So, thinking saying that was probably the wrong terminology. But you know, like, you know, when we go into different verticals, um, you know, I truly think, you know, because we're focused mainly on the creative agency vertical and we're dabbling in going into other verticals. I wouldn't say dabbling. We're really going into strong, you know, cannabis, transportation, legal, health care and a few others. And the thing is I know nothing about any of those verticals.

Jody (00:17:07) - So nothing I don't I don't know anything about cannabis, nothing about trucking. I've had one trucking company and one healthcare company that I worked with for over a period of years. But I think the biggest thing is that, yeah, we can be successful in those verticals if we hire people that have the knowledge to be successful in those, and then we tap into that knowledge, you know, because I know that if I can hop on a call with John Scott, who's doing our legal, I know that he and I could easily deliver the right product, the right service to a prospect that's looking for that, you know, you know, and we can educate them on what we do, how we do it, and what's right in that vertical. John has the vernacular that I don't have, and that's probably the biggest, I think the difference between the verticals that, you know, he knows the language. You know, I'm not going to and, and I've been on calls where people don't know that vernacular makes them look really bad.

Diane (00:17:57) - Yeah. Okay. So that I totally get I, I would agree with that completely. Yes. Yeah.

Jamie (00:18:06) - Great. So, I guess you've talked a lot about what you teach and what you believe. So, I guess my next question is probably the last question we have time for. But I'm curious, when you are working with a company, like how do you get them to take that next step and how do you get them to kind of change going from that traditional sales model into this sales mix? Imagine that's a pretty challenging job for you. So, I'm just curious how you get people to actually buy into this.

Diane(00:18:32) - So it's very challenging for me. And I have to take them like back I have to. We go to let's take a look at your past clients and the top 20% and the bottom 20%, and let's dissect them. Let's figure out what industry are they in and what size are they. What work are you doing for them? How did you get them originally? Because I believe in repeating what works.

Diane (00:18:56) - So, you know, let's find out on the top. And then we have to know how we're getting that bottom 20% because we hate them. So, we got to know what do they look like. How do they. So, we don't do that again. Right. And then we just start with just steps of okay, now that we have a target audience, start doing your research. And here's the research that you're doing. It's the curiosity thing. Let's whittle them down. You know, what do you need to know about them before you ever do outreach? Now let's do outreach. How are you going to have that conversation? We create a list of questions that they need to ask in the sales appointment. You know, it's really about the granular. So, they don't necessarily have to think about it. They just have to do it.

Jody (00:19:48) - The you know, the question I get and I'd love to hear your 100% take on this and you may have kind of talked around it a little bit is that we get we get our because with our engagements they're always long term.

Jody (00:20:03) - You know, our average client will stay with us for four, five, six plus years. And so it's a long term engagement. It's not a quick in and out, you know, fixed an issue then leave. And so when we match up our CFOs with the prospect or the client, we want to make sure that they're a good fit. You know, we want to make sure that they're a good fit for the client, but also a good fit for what we have to offer. And, you know, we get that right, probably 80%, 90% of the time. But we do get it wrong, 5 or 10%. And the CFO always comes back to us and says, what, Jamie? What do they say? What do they say to us?

Jamie (00:20:40) - It's not a good fit. It's not a good fit.

Jody (00:20:42) - Yeah. We need clients that are better fit. It's like.

Jody (00:20:47) - How do you mean it is?

Jody (00:20:48) - Can you figure that out in a sales call? Is that possible, or are you going to bat, you know, 80% of the time success rate.

Jody(00:20:55) - And you know, what's your take on that? Because I'd love to have that formula because again, it makes it it makes it a bad it puts our you know, it puts a bad experience in for our CFOs, especially the client for a couple of years. And it's just not really a good fit for them.

Diane (00:21:10) - Okay. So, my first question would be what about it isn't a good fit? Because what that tells you is here's the questions you need to ask. You need to add. So, we don't ask enough meaningful questions about the prospect. We ask about the situation. And we're really good at that. And we dig in there. But we don't ask enough about them and who they are and how they motor, how they make decisions, how they problem solve, all of these things. So, we can really get a sense of who are they and whether we feel like it's a fit, whether we feel like there's a match there. So, you know, I think there's probably questions that you could be adding to that discovery conversation that would give you a better idea of whether it makes sense.

Jamie (00:21:59) - I think it's 100% right. Jody, I'm curious if you agree with me on this, because I think when people say they're not a right fit, it's not really the product, it's not really the process. It's always the person. It's the person that we're interacting with. Would you agree with that?

Jody (00:22:14) - Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Because they definitely, they always have the issues that we can handle, we can take care of. We've done over and over and over again. Not an issue there. Um, and it's hard to tell because everybody I mean I would say everybody I mean everybody, everybody on a sales call is in their best and their best position. They're in their best thing.

Jamie (00:22:37) - Right? Yeah.

Jody (00:22:38) - How do you. Yeah. You know, think wow, this guy could be a friend with this lady is perfect. And I'd love to meet her. Know or better or whatever because she's. We just hung out with each other and had a great experience. And then I find out that she's the worst person in the world or he's horrible.

Jody (00:22:54) - Treats people bad. You know, we how do you find how do you figure that out that in that, in that, in that sales call? 

Diane (00:23:01) - Well, you ask questions like, have you ever used a service like ours before? Tell me about the experience. You can ask questions like, would you mind sharing with me a time when you had a, you were dissatisfied with a, with a vendor and how you dealt with that? Like, what was it about them? What were they doing or not doing? Whatever, because you're really trying to get into that for them to, you know, spill the tea, I guess is, you know, how these days are vernacular, right? So, it's asking those more, um, probing sorts of questions so you can get a better idea of who are they really? You're not necessarily you're not going to add a thousand. You're just you're not it's not gonna be 100% right. But you could probably increase.

Jody (00:23:47) - Yeah. So, kind of turning it more into an interview, like you're interviewing an employee for is what it sounds like.

Jody (00:23:52) - Yeah. Not only the services that they're looking for, but themselves, you know, trying to get it out of them to kind of sell themselves a little bit. Right.

Jamie (00:24:01) - How many times have you ever had it been on a sales call? I know it's happened to me. I know it happens to Adam all the time. Are there are their owner, but, like, have a client just be, like, just so you know, I'm a pain in the butt. Like I'm the kind of person that's going to ask a lot of questions and be very detailed. Like, I love when a client gives me that up front ness. And it's like, I'm this, I'm this type of client. Like, I'm going to be asking you a lot of questions. I'm going to be really making you be at your best. And again, that doesn't necessarily mean that the client we won't sign. In fact, that's kind of a client that I'm like, oh, perfect. This is I know they kind of CFO to get in front of you because some CFOs work really well, that type of person, others don't.

Jamie (00:24:31) - So think it's getting people to love what you're saying right here because again, I've, I knew it, but I don't really think about it on my sales calls is kind of asking about the person that they're going to be working with is or what is your working style. How do you, how would you handle this situation if you've ever worked with the CFO before, what was your problems with that? What went well with that CFO? Think those type of questions really would help us identify the right person for him or be like, oh, we don't have the type of person that can deal with that person in-house.

Diane (00:24:58) - Right? Which is fine. Then you say, thank you so much for the information. I don't think we're the right resource for you because you know, you can't match them. You can't try and make that happen, right?

Jody (00:25:08) - Which is best for them? Best for us. Best for everybody. Yeah.

Diane(00:25:11) - Exactly. Right.

Jamie (00:25:14) - Yeah. Awesome. Well that's again that's definitely a large takeaway for me because I know again, I'm not on a ton of sales calls, but I think it's something that I definitely need to think about a little bit when am on those calls.

Jamie (00:25:24) - And so I want to get to our, to our fun question here. And so this is going to be a hard one I think, Diane, before that, before the show said, I want you to challenge me. So I'm definitely challenging you on this one. So, we talked a lot about curiosity early on and think it's a it's a skill I think all three of us probably have. So, I'm curious about a time curiosity has helped you learn a skill that you knew nothing about. And so, what's a skill that you've mastered based on your curiosity? So, I'll give you guys a second to think about it. And I'm going to start with you, Diane, since you said you wanted to be challenged here. So, I'll give you a second to think and then I'll throw it over to you. So, what do you got?

Diane (00:25:59) - Well, my gosh, which one do I pick? Because we're having this conversation I'm going to say. Oh, you know what? Never mind. I'm going to say.

Diane (00:26:12) - Uh. Shooting a gun.

Jody (00:26:16) - Okay. Oh, there you go.

Diane (00:26:19) - Yeah. Buying a gun. Learning how to use it. Shooting it. Yeah. Something I never, ever thought I would ever do. And during Covid, I just said, you know what, I'm doing this. And so I had to learn a lot. It's a lot.

Jody (00:26:35) - Yeah, I love it.

Diane (00:26:35) - Yeah, yeah.

Jody (00:26:36) - Yeah. Because it's not easy.

Jamie (00:26:37) - That's easy.

Jody (00:26:39) - It's not easy.

Diane (00:26:40) - I'm really good.

Jamie (00:26:41) - I'm sure you are.

Diane (00:26:42) - Oh, yeah. I have great aim. Yeah. The only thing I learned. Yeah.

Jamie (00:26:46) - So, Joey remember that she has great aim with a gun.

Jamie (00:26:49) - So yeah, hopefully this podcast is going well.

Jamie(00:26:56) - Yeah. I think that there's a lot of safety there to, like, think you have to. It's something you have to, um, you have to learn how to do.

Jamie (00:27:02) - Yeah. You're going to hurt yourself. that 

Jody (00:27:05) - My mother brought a gun. It's kind of funny.

Jody (00:27:06) - She bought a gun that hasn't even taken out of the box yet. She bought it in Covid. Yeah. Because, you know, she listened to all the news and how people were breaking out, you know, all the different stuff that, you know, never very rarely happened. And so she was prepared and she had this gun that supposedly she was going to figure out how to use it. If somebody ever came into the house.

Jody (00:27:28) - Never left the box.

Diane (00:27:29) - Right? No, I bought two. I mean, you know, then I was all about it because once I'm.

Jody (00:27:40) - So he's a definitely into guns big time. He's got many many many many guns. Mine is a mine is not a skill that I have or it's not a, it's not something I've actually conquered yet. But what it is, it's something that I'm going to be.

Jody (00:27:56) - So it's a, it's a future thing. And when I was in high school I wrestled and loved it. And it was one of those things that it was just fun for me. And, since high school, I've not done it. So I've not done this in 40 years. Right. And so, I thought, you know, hey, it would be kind of neat to take up something like that. And so, I've been looking in at jiu jitsu and talk to a lot of people that have been doing it. I'm watching all kinds of videos and, and really kind of just, you know, kind of like, you know, a people actually do it and teach you how to do it and that sort of thing. And so, I'll be taking my first class in January. And so that that is something that, you know, like you said, being curious about it, you know, getting some, you know, wanted to get, you know, it's and it's not just because I want to get out there and, and have self-defense or anything like that.

Jody (00:28:43) - It's more getting back into shape and thought, you know what? I tried the weightlifting. I've tried the dieting. I've tried all of that. Why don't I try something that I enjoyed, you know, when I was in really good shape and that was back, you know, back then. And so I thought, you know, hey, Jamie's for you. It's basketball for me. I don't it's not like you can join a well, you could probably join a wrestling club and wrestle.

Jody (00:29:03) - You know, lots of people on Saturday.

Jody(00:29:05) - I guess you could.

Jody (00:29:07) - I don't know of it, but I thought, you know, hey, let's try something that I think I would really enjoy. And knowing that, and I was kind of funny because I was listening to one video and it said, be prepared to lose a lot and thought, you know what? I can accept that. I can take losing a lot. I did it a lot in high school before I actually became pretty decent, and I know that I'm just going to these, look, these kids are just going to beat the heck out of me.

Jody (00:29:34) - And I know that, and I accepted that. But it's one of those things that, you know, it's like it now will be fun. Now it's going to be something I can participate and do well and have fun with it, knowing that I'm not well, maybe I will. Maybe I'll become a black belt in it. Who knows? I mean that that'd be a great goal. Very that takes a lot of dedication. And then I'm not sure that I'm willing to put into it at this point, but it would be it'd be great to get out there and just simply see what I can do. And so, I guess that would be that would be what I'm looking for. So, so jiu jitsu is something that will be in my very near future.

Jamie (00:30:07) - I might have to change my answer in case we ever do it in person. Podcast. The three of us, like one of you, is a gun expert, the other no be able to grapple. So I'm gonna like have to have some.

Jamie (00:30:16) - Kind of self-defense to do a podcast.

Jamie (00:30:18) - With you to actually my go. Sorry, Diane. Go ahead.

Diane (00:30:24) - No. Go ahead.

Jamie (00:30:25) - Now say what my answer is honestly is the is backpacking right. So backpacking is something I grew up in Colorado and I was so invested in sports and so like that's all my family did was I played sports three sports a gear did all. That's all I did that we didn't really enjoy the Colorado beauty as much as a lot of my friends did. So, when I finally got older and got my own life, I'm like, you know, I'm gonna really figure out how to experience the outdoors. And not just camping, not just car camping, but really experience how to, like, go backpacking for a couple of days and live on my own with a backpack and take my kids and do the same thing. So that's something that actually took a group of joy. Did mention basketball. So to take a group of my basketball players up to the mountains and let them experience it and make sure they have the right gear and how much gear to carry and like, had a whole write up on, you know, this is the things you need to do.

Jamie (00:31:11) - This is how you go to the bathroom, like all the things you don't really think of when you're not, not a backpacker. So that the one thing that I really like was curious about. Asked a lot of questions about and read a lot about and became. I wouldn't say I'm an expert. I wouldn't say I could go on the show alone and survive for too long. But like, I definitely know how to do a couple day backpacking trip pretty efficiently.

Jody (00:31:30) - So for those that don't, Jamie's not talking about bringing a bunch of adult basketball players.

Jamie (00:31:35) - No thank you.

Jamie (00:31:38) - Middle schoolers and high schoolers. Yeah, coach, middle school and high school basketball players. So, I brought them up the mountains and taught them. So.

Diane (00:31:44) - Got it, got it.

Diane (00:31:46) - Excellent.

Jamie (00:31:47) - Great.

Jamie (00:31:47) - Well, great answers. I didn't stump either of you, unfortunately, but one of these days I will. So it's been a great episode. I know, I've learned a lot, but let's do our final thoughts from our two our two guests here.

Jamie (00:31:59) - So I'll start with you, Diane. Final thoughts for our listeners. And how can they learn more about you?

Diane (00:32:03) - Oh my gosh. So, my final thought is embrace I don't know and always be curious instead of always be closing. And if you would like to get in touch with me, just go to helbigenterprises.com.

Jamie (00:32:18) - Awesome.

Jamie (00:32:19) - Jody.

Jody (00:32:21) - Yeah, I think I think coaching is always important. So, I think if you if you don't, if you're not good at it, you don't know how to do it. I think reaching out to a Diane super important don't let your, I guess Achilles heel affect your company. You know, make sure that you get out there and do it and seek out the person that can help out in that area. For me, myself, it's always been educate, not sell. And I I've, I've had that mantra ever since, you know we started the company and that's kind of how we've grown. And I think we've grown so fast and so well with and my son getting out into sales, he's out of college and everything he's selling for Cintas now.

Jody (00:33:05) - And I hope that he has learned a little bit of that, and is doing the same thing you always hope that your kids are doing and managing things in the same way. I hope he's seen me talk and delivering that sort of thing in a similar manner where he's out there educating, you know, his potential customer base and in turn, I think you'll have a great sales career. So that'd be mine. Jamie, how about yours?

Jamie (00:33:31) - Yeah, no, my biggest advice is listen to these two. I'm definitely not the not the salesperson here, but I think both these people have educated me on this, on this episode and think that the philosophy that we're talking about here, I think, really does work. And like I said early on in this podcast, it makes anyone that's in the sales process very comfortable, right? Like I went from being I worked for a large public firm for 12, ten years of my career, and again, I did some sales there, but it was always something that I was uncomfortable doing.

Jamie (00:33:59) - But once I became to summit, it's like, oh, this is this is easy. I could do this. I could do this every day if I had to. Like this. This is really a lot more fun, a lot more easy than anywhere I've ever done. So think both of you guys are definitely experts in this area. So anyone that listens to this podcast will come out of it better. So definitely appreciate you guys.

Diane (00:34:15) - Thank you. That was fun.

Jody (00:34:17) - Yeah. Thanks for having us on being on with us. Appreciate it.

Outro (00:34:21) - Enjoy this podcast. Visit our website summitCPA.Net to get more tips and strategy for achieving business success. We're here to be a resource in this ever changing industry.