AI's Influence on Agencies: Disruption or Enhancement?

The Virtual CPA Success Show: Episode 90

[00:00:17] Jody: So I'd like to welcome everybody to the show.

[00:00:22] I've got a great guest here, JP Holecka from Power Shifter Digital and Power Shifter Digital Significant AI is what we're gonna be talking about. All AI and all AI. 

[00:00:35] So, hopefully get your fill from AI from this conversation. Looking forward to it. Joey, welcome to the show as well, that seems like you and I are becoming tandem partners here kicking Jamie out of the arena there, huh?

[00:00:46] Joey: I appreciate  it, Jody. Always great to be on with you. 

[00:00:49] Jody: Yep. So let's go ahead and kick it over to JP. JP, could you give us a quick introduction of yourself and we'll kinda take it from there? 

[00:00:55] JP: Sure thing. I'm JP Holecka. I'm the CEO and founder of Power Shifter Digital here in Vancouver, Canada, where we specialize in all things digital from mobile apps, web apps, websites, all that good stuff.

[00:01:07] Mostly on the design and build front, not so much on marketing and strategy, that aspect of things. And I've been researching generative AI specifically, which I think is probably yeah, the biggest spotlight in the last 12 months. And I've been sharing what I've been learning.

[00:01:22] I feel like I've just slightly ahead. It's hard to stay ahead. I was ahead yesterday when I got up, but we'll see today stay ahead and get the news out to agencies around how this might impact them from an opportunity perspective and or whether or not there's some threats as well from there.

[00:01:37] Jody: Yeah, it's scary, right? Cause I was just at a digital conference and they were talking about AI is going to put people out of work. That was the big thing. Put digital marketers out of work which I completely disagree with. I think it's gonna really enhance things, but I would love to get your opinion on that one there.

[00:01:51] Is it gonna put everybody outta work? 

[00:01:55] JP: I think that there is a large group of people- I think what I've been writing about recently is that within two years, outside of I would say employment law or employment regulation existing union contracts and the time left on those contracts.

[00:02:10] And I guess ethics and morality are the only things, really the three things that are gonna stop unemployment on one side of the coin from happening in a lot of areas that I don't think anyone really expected it this quickly. And however, on the flip side there's opportunity, but I think that jobs will be reduced.

[00:02:27] I think agencies will be working with less people getting more done, and I think a lot more will be taken in-house as well. That would've typically gone to ncs, lower on the value on the value chain. 

[00:02:38] Jody: So overall, you're, you do believe that, hey, the the AI is going to reduce the workload from agencies and they won't, they will not have to have as many people on the team in order to accomplish the almighty, basically revenue number that they need to hit.

[00:02:50] JP: Yeah. I think in every department, for the most part, across the board from what I've been experimenting with, yeah. 

[00:02:59] Jody: So what are the positives there? Wasn't expecting that one. Wasn't expecting that one. 

[00:03:03] JP: So, what are the positives? I think a couple of big shifts that we we've seen in the industry for a while, which, and I know that your team has been an advocates for, which is value pricing.

[00:03:12] Value pricing, which is interpreted in a couple of different ways, right? I would say the value pricing for the most part and understood within the agency spot is fixed fee in a sense. What is the value of the output that the client sees in value? There are those that do performance value based on sales and markman leads and what. But what I'm speaking to is the fixed fee, what is the perceived value of the offering? I think that the drive to that is going to be more important from a narrative perspective because it's always been bad about selling ours. So I think the good thing is that this will accelerate quite rapidly.

[00:03:46] It'll have to move to value or fixed fee pricing. It does a couple things. If you can do things in seconds versus days. Which is literally how a lot of things can be done or reduced by 10x. Your hourly rate is no longer sustainable. Because it just hasn't, it doesn't have the value that it did because it was all based on norms of people doing stuff physically or, or going through a linear fashion to get something started to finish. So I think the opportunity there is that there will be margins. If you can position your agency as brand and as the experts that they are, regardless of how it gets done. 

[00:04:25] Jody: So you think the flat fee is gonna be becoming more and more of a norm versus the outlier, which it's been for a long time.

[00:04:31] Value basing being, the key to that. So subscription based model? What's your thought on that? Now that we’re getting rid of the hour, is subscription based gonna becoming more and more of a normal? We've been doing it for, since what, 2007?

[00:04:45] And very successful in an industry that was completely against it, completely frowned upon it. It was looked as, not being even ethical at the time. And in reality it's becoming more and more, and more of a norm. Going to the creative agency space, I've always said, “hey, if anybody can crack that knot, man, you, you could really make a huge in the in the industry.”

[00:05:06] Do you think subscription based is going to be? Please tell me, yes. Please tell me, yes. 

[00:05:10] JP: I think you are aligned on that. I've been saying the subscriptions are going to be a thing for agencies from a certain part of productization. For many years, I will say that I think it's been a harder sell client side than it maybe it  been for agencies to understand what it means for businesses like Summit. I think it all depends on the interpretation as well. A subscription is whether you use it or lose it, in my view.

[00:05:33] More of a model like a Netflix, which those things don't roll over. It can be just another name or nomenclature for a retainer, which I don't care for. But honestly, getting a certain amount of month, you're drawing against it. A lot of people will think that's just a subscription.

[00:05:48] But I think it's a bit more nuanced than that, which is you get a fee. You gotta use the, you use the hours or you don't, or use the services or the productization of that. So I think that I think it's overdue. I think it'll be easier to probably be able to lower the subscription costs.

[00:06:05] However, to get more subscriptions, you see it more of a volume game, which I know is not a necessarily a great thing with an agency, but if you get more with lower subscriptions, similar to a SaaS model, I think then relying on generative AI to help find the speed and to remove the risk as well, that you you might go over and then has a less of a great use of a subscription, but I think we may have to call it something else, but I think the model's there, and this will help for sure

[00:06:32] Jody: Yeah. Cause the way I look at subscription based is not just simply the way that you actually bill somebody out. Whether it's on a weekly basis like we do or monthly like other folks will do. 

[00:06:42] It's more the services that you get for it. Like for Netflix is a perfect example where it doesn't make it every time how many movies you watch. You can binge watch a bunch of movies. You're gonna pay the same subscription fee, for that. Cause it's providing that, that service level 

[00:06:58] With what we do, the same thing. We, it doesn't make any difference if we're providing, a profit sharing plan for you or helping you with your banking relationships or whatever that might be. It's all encompassed in that same. And so I'm hoping that what AI is going to be doing, and may be already doing for a lot of firms, hopefully is allowing that to happen.

[00:07:14] Where now they can start managing a bunch of different things that, you know, that their agency is actually doing versus just simply waiting for the manpower, the womenpower to actually get things get things done over time. 

[00:07:27] JP: Yeah, I think it'll definitely help with that because you can just get things done so much quicker.

[00:07:32] And again, I think focusing on your case studies, your outcomes and is it gonna become more and more important when you justify why money should be spent at your agency.

[00:07:42] Jody: And you kinda mentioned that it might be a good opportunity for folks to actually lower their revenue, their price, and still be able to achieve a really nice, a better profit margin than what they are with their higher price and be able to capture bigger market share.

[00:07:57] JP: I think it's gonna be a very destabilizing factor. And I believe that there will be agencies born out of this, where those that are maybe working on another agencies say, “you know what? We can do this and position ourselves as an AI focused agency. Don't try to hide the fact, let's go in, we can go 10 times faster.”

[00:08:17] And maybe there's a way in which you're positioning yourself that, that speed to market. With a high level of consistency, quality with unjust enough human intervention to make sure that the ideas are there to begin with because AI doesn't have any ideas. It just sits there waiting for an input.

[00:08:35] And at the other end of it, when it's done, all the heavy lifting, who are the humans that are the last line of defense between whether the creativity works or whether the numbers and the data have been analyzed are true. So as we know it to be true. But I think that there's going to be agencies that will come out of this, not across the board of course, but there will be a new niche that is the super AI agency that gets you to market faster.

[00:08:56] However, that's a premium. It's not a discount. It may be slightly discounted than a premium agency, but if speed is the key and market fit then I would say that you're now paying for a premium. Remember when you used to get printed materials and you needed it in a hurry, it would be a premium for this, for some reason, a digital never seems to get that. The faster it is the less value it seemed to have, but I think you could see that you might be able to invert that. 

[00:09:23] Joey: I do think it's an  interesting idea moving more to a subscription based that lends itself to me towards what's gonna be the defining factor for a lot of agencies in this new world, which is, it's gonna have to be relationship-driven.

[00:09:35] In order for a subscription model to be sustainable, you've gotta have a long length with your clients to overcome. 

[00:09:44] Joey: You know what, you have to put into it upfront to make it work. And that's really, I think, gonna be key for agencies to realize, like if relationships are always important in a digital space, they're gonna become more important in this new world.

[00:09:54] JP: And the outcomes, I think are gonna be, you know what if everyone's fighting the AI super SEO bots, then that'll just be table stakes, right? And so you'll really still have to “what is your secret sauce on top of the AI” that makes your, if you're an SEO agency or content agency, even better.

[00:10:13] But for those that say, “ well, we'll handcraft it always,” that's great. If you can afford to put your brand and position and say, “it's because of the people.” And most likely from what I've read, it still will be better. Will still be better written content. However, there's 10 pretty good articles that are well, pretty good SEO versus one that's great.

[00:10:34] It could, I think in this arms race, it's gonna be a numbers game. It's gonna be hard to stay afloat with content. 

[00:10:41] Jody: So you think SEO will go away? 

[00:10:42] JP: It's one of the reasons why I think Google's detuning it. And the big push is because it's just so much content's gonna be of equal quality, whether that's great quality or just a high bar because, as I read Tim Goodwin the other day said, he says, “AI is average internet” because it's taking everything and averaging it, right? When you have to really drive it through prompt engineering to make it specific. If you ask the same question in ChatGPT, for the most part, the same wording, you'll get the same general response without a lot of nuances, which is if you asked five different writers or researches different times the same question, you'd have a much more nuanced response from their own biases in between.

[00:11:24] Jody: It was kinda amazing cause I was playing with ChatGPT just earlier this morning and I said, Hey, write this article written by Jody Grunden. And it was like amazing. It popped up all my information. It was putting it in there. I was like, “huh, this is cool actually.”

[00:11:37] JP: Yeah, because you existed pre 2021 and it was able to consume All the content in which you put out there online that is openly available. So yes, it can emulate you. You can also feed GPT in each one of those sessions, content that you want it to learn a mini model, as it were. So if you've got blog posts or some of your own things, you can feed it into a single session and then refer back to say, that writing style in which I gave you those examples, I'd like you to match as closely as possible, even with the small sample size, it'll be closer.

[00:12:10] Jody: Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, looking forward to playing around with that a lot. Because we write a ton of articles. We usually write about an article a day. It seems so much content as we try to throw out there to help agency owners run their businesses better. 

[00:12:26] Joey: One thing that I'm curious about kind of along the same thinking about ChatGPT and how it's changing things. The speed at which this has developed is the part that's, even for an elder male like me who grew up with computers and grew up in this world of digital disruption and change and being comfortable with it, it's happened so much faster than even I could have predicted or I'm even comfortable with.

[00:12:48] Has this been inevitable or is there a catalyst that's driving it to happen now, in your opinion?

[00:12:55] JP: I think. AI has been impacting everyone's lives probably since 2016, 2017, you'll start to see things or you hear that these things are being driven by AI and behind, but it's been a little bit of a mystery, right?

[00:13:11] Oh, it's better because of AI. Okay. It feels better. Sure. However, it's been unattainable for many. And so this is the Model T moment in a way. Which is that with two big platforms, the generative AI with Dolly, which is open AI, and Midjourney for free models.

[00:13:32]  And then for stuff that you can, if you're really rolling up your sleeves 10 into $30 a month and it becomes publicly accessible AI and it's very specific on what it does in one regard. So you don't need a big manual. And so I think it's one of the reasons why it's AI for everybody and it's giving people access to models and testing real world testing that's been mostly in labs to date. So I think there's a bunch of things that are happening, but partially because it's not been turned over. This is like the days of, it's so rudimentary though, or we don't really even know where it's going. In my view, it's like when they invented fire, they know that one thing, it could light a thing on fire, but who knew we were gonna get cooking and all the things that came from it.

[00:14:20] We're at that point right now where really, I'm just speaking to GPT specifically. They know very little of what it's capable of and they didn't plan on knowing everything they've done it. The theoretically what it can do, they put some guardrails on it, some because they don't really even know what the guardrails should look like, to be frank.

[00:14:41] And where, the manuals are being written every day, specifically with GPT and I guess what the generative ones as well. As users are going in on mass, and trying things out, is that critical mass of thinkers that go, “I wonder…”  and then they go in and try something, “will it do this?”

[00:14:59] Because, again, the creators of this had thought maybe, or maybe not. It's really such an open tool or many of these are now, we really don't know how they're going to be used. We're just seeing. I see new things every day in which we could use generative AI image generation or the GPT platform.

[00:15:20] I see new reas new reasons every day within the agency or from what I'm researching that yesterday we didn't know you could use GPT for

[00:15:27] Jody: What are some of those new things? I'm just gonna throw some nuggets out there for the folks listening today. 

[00:15:32] JP: What's come out loud, proud early on was. Content creation in anybody's voice or any style and lots of things around lots of hyperbole or chats around SEO and SEO agencies and that.

[00:15:44] And I think that content generation, it can do very quickly and a lot of it. I think it's gonna take a while before it to become great content. And I was watching a professor from MIT talking about AI the other day, and he said it’s just sitting there AI. it still needs the spark of human creativity for the input or the prompt engineering or the art of what's possible before it can actually take that baton and run with it.

[00:16:09] And on the other side of things where it's doing things much, much quicker, generative AI can also just totally make stuff up very well. And you have to basically know whether or not what's been produced is real. Or just great fiction. And it'd be weird. One little weird word and a prompt and it can send the results that you anticipated to just be nuts.

[00:16:34] It started making things up. When I asked it to take a transcript from a meeting that I did through Otter’s transcription. I transcribed it and then put it into GPT and said all key comments and all key commitments by speaker, which I do every day. And this day solely made up none of the stuff in which took place in the meeting that it was listing as meeting notes took place, nobody's expertise was even close to what it was talking about was so farfetched.

[00:17:02] I tried a few different ways. I. And I couldn't, I had to restart it. So yeah, so humans on the far end at the beginning for the spark. And then all the heavy lifting are the ways in which you can see, signals and analyze data. But humans on the other end to make sure that what is coming out is as we expect it to be or want it to be.

[00:17:21] Jody: Yeah, that's pretty interesting cuz if you didn't really know what the outcome was, you could really be going down the wrong rabbit hole.

[00:17:26] JP: Yeah. And you're starting to see people getting called out on content already when they're just generating it really quickly. Some of the things that you could do that people probably didn't think about.

[00:17:33] I wondered cuz we do business model work here for digital transformation, whether new digital business models and in that service design aspect of our business, we look at things like value proposition canvases and business model canvases, which are very visual, come out at Silicon Valley in the last 10 years.

[00:17:52] A lot of businesses, that's where they start now. I asked that if it could based on a business concept that I did for a small float plane, like it was a fictional case study, small float line putting an airline in the Pacific Northwest. I had it come up with the value proposition in a canvas form in all of the value props based on the description

[00:18:12] It came up with all of the packages that it needed to be. It gave me names, taglines, which I then put into Midjourney and then had it come out with logos and other, and brochures all within a few minutes. And it was the business model canvas and the business value proposition canvas in a table that I've looked at and said, it's definitely very close.

[00:18:36] Let's call it 80% of when, if you're doing business model work. Then you can go and do the sweetening on top, but it gets all of the regular stuff outta the way that arduously, you'd have to, you'd put in that's one thing. Again, we're just trying to figure what's working, what isn't. I put in a job description.

[00:18:52] From one or two of our jobs. And I asked if there was any biases, any type of biases whatsoever. Cause we wanted it to be in, it listed that ours was very gender racial bias neutral. Which  is great cause we've been working on that already. But it quickly came out, found some things that we might not have even considered biases, which is the location.

[00:19:12] I guess it's not a remote working location. So there might be some biases for those outside of the-. That was one way. I put in a CV of somebody, I put in a job description who I was interviewing, and then I put the CV in for that job interview and I said first, you are a recruiter at a digital agency.

[00:19:28] Would this person at first blush, based on what you see from their cv, be a good fit for this role? And it totally went through line by line. Now you still need to interview. You need to do all those things cuz the CV is still a CV. However, it's again, saved, I would say, 15 minutes per CV before going through the interview, just even to look at it.

[00:19:48] Now, those things should be built right in, right? So GPT should now do sentiment analysis or job fit, which I'm sure will be coming in the next few months. Those are just two things that within a single day or two, I thought I might try ChatGPT to figure things out. That's where we're at.

[00:20:03] So those that are telling you that it's not going to impact the agencies or the creative industry, I'll tell you right now, they're not using it. Because anybody who's using it for more than an hour will recognize quite quickly if they're curious mind all of the things in which could be rapidly accelerated through just GPT alone.

[00:20:27] But even with the image generation, I did some Chanel number five bottles work photo product photography, and it looked like a shot right over the magazine for Christmas, Chanel number five, other than the logo and the label, which we redid. And that was three different looks.

[00:20:44] Joey: It's really interesting what's being done with visuals too.

[00:20:45] There's been a big movement some towns here in northern New Mexico. There's some folks that I follow on Twitter who are really into reimagining urban spaces here in New Mexico and how we can solve some of our housing equity problems and things that we're trying to do and they fed some stuff into the Midjourney which I had never heard of until last week, and it was creating some incredible visuals fitting the Taos Pueblo style with reimagined multi-family homes and mixed use spaces.

[00:21:12] And it is funny, they haven't figured out logos yet and like some of the restaurant names and names on the buildings are funny. But the vibe and the gist of what they're going for is inherent. It looks like artist renderings from an architecture firm. It's incredible what people are doing with it

[00:21:27] JP: It's shocking and how radically it's changing. So if you look at it, I would've said two months ago that the photography illustration and whatnot, those jobs are safe. Since the release of Midjourney five, within the last two weeks, I would say that we are months away. You can even now if you're doing for, I would say for blogs or lower-end production, internal in-house work, I think AI is starting to already replace in-house images for blog posts and whatnot, or internal graphics. You're gonna start to see where writing's not such a big thing, or the six fingers are okay because Midjourney can't count. But even those are getting better. So I would say that where I would've said that it was great for production art or concept art a few months ago.

[00:22:11] You're only, you're within a year and someone probably already using it now for final production work. And so you can see that's replacing potentially photographers. And I've got some, I did some Mercedes-Benz photography on the coast of California, and I'll send you some of these after for, yeah. For product, for photography as well.

[00:22:29] That was a morning fog, Northern California coast. Like it was hard to tell. It was in photograph of a G wagon, the latest one. And so it went from concept artists saying, giving that to. A production company or photographer say, I want it to look like this. We're within six months of that becoming what's done, and then final touchups of the car or get superimposed or what have you, but the background plates and that they're, I think this photographer's worried.

[00:22:58] And it's hard. It's hard to describe until you start using it. We've got three things going on. We've got a recession. That's a headwind, or at least the media's been talking about this recession for a long time. The numbers don't typically seem to be reinforcing that, but nonetheless.

[00:23:15] So a lot of agencies, a lot of companies that would hire agencies are looking for ways in which to quote, start to save money. How can they shore things up? I think we're also seeing this work from home Covid, whatever that turns out to be, we're in the, that's starting to really solidify what's going on.

[00:23:32] And then just with AI being so accessible to everyone, I think you're gonna start to see people just starting to use it. And it won't be necessarily formal, but it's like everyone's pressed for time. Once everyone's looking for a shortcut, throughout the day, we all are, as long as it doesn't compromise the work to find you that space or more time or the margins.

[00:23:53] And I think it's just, you just see people going back more and more. Internally here, we're seeing people say that yeah, every day they're in GPT more, once they understand the things that they could potentially do. There's a lot of other things we should discuss too, around confidential information and great unknowns.

[00:24:09] But I think that yeah, to get to the original point, jobs, I think there will be jobs taken away or more work put in those same people to get done or expectations higher. 

[00:24:22] Jody: I think , I don't know. And maybe there will be jobs going away a little bit, but I look at it as, you make a creator and you make 'em a reviewer.

[00:24:31] You make their job changes in dynamics. You know what. Where they're trying to create the words and everything. Now they're the editor, they're reviewing the words. So I think the work will still be there for folks. It is just a matter of, now they've gotta develop different skills, different skill sets than what they maybe had going into it, maybe, and a little faster than normal.

[00:24:50] Cuz what will be, I think the normal thing for coming right out of college or doing whatever isn't gonna be there anymore. It's gonna be, hey, we're gonna need higher level thinkers. Versus lower level doers. 

[00:25:02] JP: Agreed. It's, I think it's no different than if you look at, to mining, going down on a rope with a pickax and a light and having to do this versus conveyor belts and machines and there's more people at the top than they're at the bottom. 

[00:25:08] And if the mine extracting versus having to be all done by hand. So the extraction of the creation of the bulk of things can be done with more accuracy and more speed.

[00:25:23] But I still think the creativity, the spark the things with the bigger, you can spend more time on bigger ideas or the more important parts as I said to the team, yeah,  we can deliver even better as opposed to delivering mediocre, we can deliver even better because the arduous work that you had to do for some of these areas of a data analysis or what have you, you can take that time and focus on the big thing.

[00:25:49] Jody: We can talk about this forever. This is an exciting topic, but it's come down to where Joey is going to present the question of the podcast here. Joey, let's let's hear this. We kinda warned JP earlier about what this could potentially be and Joey, go ahead and spring it on us.

[00:26:05] Joey: Whenever I think about technology change, I always feel like science fiction is trying to warn us not to do this and we can't get out of our own way. So the question of the day, if you can think of one off the top of your head, what's your favorite science fiction movie and how, are there any lessons that we need to take from it with relation to where we're going with AI?

[00:26:21] JP: I think like many, especially my age, star Wars would be differently was it was in there. We've got big Star Wars contingent here at the agency and it's been a big part of my life. So I think just beware of the dark side. 

[00:26:34] Joey: Yeah, that's always well intentioned. 

[00:26:36] JP:, There's a light side and dark side, and I think as long as we take that there's a balance between the things that AI's doing for good versus what it could potentially do on the negative.

[00:26:47] Then I'd say beware of the dark side. 

[00:26:49] Jody: Yeah, no, I have to agree with you. Star Wars was definitely when we grew up. I think we probably grew up in the same era there. We, it was the thing, it was something you couldn't wait to watch the next one coming out and the next one.

[00:27:00] And with good versus evil, everything going on there. I agree. I'm gonna take a switch there. I'm gonna say Star Trek. It's also there. Just from the beam me up, right there on your chest to all the AI that they talked about way back when, it's amazing that we looked at that as science fiction way, a long time ago.

[00:27:18] Yeah. Long time ago, 10 years ago. And could never happen to something that is going to become a reality, if not already a reality, which is amazing. And I think you're right. It's just a matter of can we make sure that we harness it and use it for the right things. It is what's gonna be I think the true test of where we're gonna go going forward.

[00:27:37] Not necessarily can we create it, it's how can we make sure that we harness a good versus evil in the same manner that you mentioned with Star Wars. So Joey, go ahead. Tell us what yours was. I know you're so young. It's probably something over the last five years.

[00:27:51] Joey: It's a throwback, but it's a remake.

[00:27:53] I got really into the new Dune movie that came out a couple years ago, which I thought was fantastic. Visually was great. Lots of Star Wars vibes there. You can see where Lucas maybe took a little bit of stuff from Dune. That's a different podcast, however. We could spend 30 minutes talking about that. The thing that I think about with AI and I think back to another movie wasn't science fiction, but it was the Imitation game, talking about Alan Turing creating his first machine and cracking the Enigma code. There's, we've been building towards this for a long time. We call it the Turing test, right?

[00:28:28] The one thing that's gonna prove what we've been trying to get at for almost a hundred years at this point, which is how do we create a computer that thinks and acts and talks like a human? And I just always wonder if we're gonna be the architects of our own demise, and we're gonna find out that, on our tombstone as humans, it's gonna say we were our own worst enemy and we couldn't get out of our own way.

[00:28:52] And I just want us to, it's a great tool. I think it's a great opportunity to have everybody elevate and get better and use, solve some of our big societal problems that we're trying to solve. I just hope we do so responsibly and we do so without greed, so that, like Dune, we're not exploiting the earth, we're taking care of it and living harmoniously with it.

[00:29:13] Jody: I love it, man. You should be a poet, man. Did you get that on AI or did you make that, did you say that yourself? 

[00:29:20] Joey: Oh, I typed into the ChatGPT about 10 minutes ago. 

[00:29:23] JP: Make me look smart watching and waiting around how Dune and AI parallels in the future will be like. I think that it all, There are, regardless of technology advancements.

[00:29:35] And there are many, and this is one of many that has talked, brought us here today. At the end of the day, whether it's analog or whether it's technology, it all comes down to ethics, right? What is ethical? Regardless of the tool or the people, if the intent behind anything, whether this technology or analog is not a good intent, it's going to stay that way with the few behind me.

[00:29:55] There's lots of AI generated art that I've done to the last year, and I've had printed along with actual analog photographs. And some people said it looks like. If some of that aren't familiar to others or could look like a Warhol and whatnot, what do you say to that?

[00:30:10] And I said that's the difference. If I choose to get AI to generate a Warhol-type picture to put up on my wall or to go sell it, that's an ethics thing because you can still buy Warhol knockoffs that are being created in factories by people working for Point, 5 cents an hour that are being shipped onto Freighters.

[00:30:28] And again, it's his analog and it's the intent behind it. And if the ethics are on our side, we'll harness it for good, I believe. 

[00:30:36] Jody: No, sounds great. Ending on that JP how could our viewers get a hold of you if they wanted to reach out to you about this or any other topic?

[00:30:45] JP: I've been doing a few more talks yeah, powershifter.com or is where my agency or jaypiddy J A Y P I DD dot Y is my blog. You can get me there. But I also write a lot about AI and as well as agency stuff and the impacts thereof.

[00:31:02] Jody: JP, it's been great. It's been great. Appreciate you stopping by today.

[00:31:05] Had a, the time flew by very quick. I think we even went over a little bit there. Yeah. But it seems super quick. JP with Power Shifter Digital, thank you very much for joining us today. 

[00:31:16] JP: No problem. Thank you. 

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